Spoiler! DONT HATE ME! I liked FC

[KimMH]

Like the rest I definitely won't ever hate you for having an opinion. You're fully entitled to like the book, however, it wouldn't make much sense for me to waste money on it and then only read half so I'm definitely going to skip it.

Besides I haven't heard or seen anything so far in regard to spoilers that makes me even remotely want to buy and read it.

I simply have zero interest in the direction Pocket Books has decided to take.

Edit:
Not to mention that I consider buying the book to be equal to supporting said decision. Maybe not in spirit, but it does increase Pocket Books' sales and thereby their idea that killing her was acceptable, and to me it just isn't.

I too bought a few books the other way, but I stayed in the crime section. However, I fully intend to catch up on Twilligt since I've now heard so much good from so many people.

Edit, edit...damn I cant spell today. *rolls eyes*

I've really wrestled with that idea - I really want to show support - or is it NON support for her death by not buying it but it has been very pointedly pointed out that if I don't read the book(s) I don't really know what I am talking about. Alas, until I did read them I didn't. (I'm sorry - I know I've stopped making sense!)

Meanwhile I am also possesed of a need to keep current in TrekLit because a little time off equals being completely lost when the next big thing comes along. It has placed ST fans who admire Janeway in a rather unhappy place and the angst it has created doesn't seem to be a good thing. It's like mean old grandpappy dividing up the estate unfairly and watching the infighting for the fun of it.

Maybe it's an attempt on the part of Pocket books to take the pulse as it were of the Voyager fic franchise to see how far it can be pushed - or perhaps an attempt to buildup to a resurrection. That is my hope.

 

[Astraea]

I have no idea if libraries actually carry the VOY books, but couldn't you just check it out of the library and read if you wanted to look at it without financially supporting Pocket? Or, say, buy it secondhand? That way, Pocket doesn't get any kickback after your purchase, and you still get to read it. Or you can cheatingly use Amazon's "Search Inside" feature to read the entire book, albeit in an extremely annoying way.

And, just my two cents, but Twilight (the Stephenie Meyer quartet, not the DS9R Mission Gamma book) is awful.

 

[kimc]

I've really wrestled with that idea - I really want to show support - or is it NON support for her death by not buying it but it has been very pointedly pointed out that if I don't read the book(s) I don't really know what I am talking about. Alas, until I did read them I didn't. (I'm sorry - I know I've stopped making sense!)

I say read it if you want to read it - not because you feel you can only have an opinion if you do read it. That's nonsense. You can read a review in a paper and form an opinion on whether or not you want to read it or if you like what's happened in it. Sure, you can't say things like "the writing style is good or bad" or "the pacing was off" if you don't read the book but imo you don't have to read "Full Circle" to decide whether or not you want to read it or like Janeway's death.

 

[Astraea]

But there's going to be so much more in FC than just Janeway's death. It's not like FC is based entirely around Janeway's death like Before Dishonor was. You might be able to like certain aspects of FC (i.e. the arcs of other major characters, or the handling of J/C) without liking Janeway's death.

Example: I'm still getting through nu-BSG (just finished S2.5.) If I finish this series and, say, Helo doesn't get his baby back, I'm going to be majorly pissed off; Helo is one of my favorite characters and I want him to survive and have a happy ending. If he does end unhappily, however, the handling of that one hypothetical character arc wouldn't affect how I would feel about the handling of other arcs within the same show.

I think that in order to say that you really like or dislike something (an actual work, not an idea), that you have to have read it. You can have an opinion about the actual premise, but you can't have an issue with the execution of said premise until you've read it. As much as you hate the idea of one of your favorite characters dying, could you accept it if they were killed off "well"? Granted, Star Trek doesn't generally deal with character death well, but if Janeway got a send-off worthy of Spock's death in TWOK (which, remember, was intended to be permanent), then could you be satisfied wtih the execution of, well, that execution even if you didn't like the idea?

 

[Gorf]

In my opinion the Voyager books have been below standard for years and for that very reason I gave up reading them a long time ago. They just didn't interest me enough.

I'm not even remotely tempted, and since I know what's going to happen it seems unjustly cruel to subject myself and my surroundings to the bitching that's bound to follow such an ending.

Besides there's many other books I'd like to buy - mostly within the crime genre.

Had this book ended differently than it does, it just might have been my first Star Trek book in 8 or 9 years, but since it doesn't...no thanks.

 

[joyofvgr]

But there's going to be so much more in FC than just Janeway's death. It's not like FC is based entirely around Janeway's death like Before Dishonor was. You might be able to like certain aspects of FC (i.e. the arcs of other major characters, or the handling of J/C) without liking Janeway's death.

Example: I'm still getting through nu-BSG (just finished S2.5.) If I finish this series and, say, Helo doesn't get his baby back, I'm going to be majorly pissed off; Helo is one of my favorite characters and I want him to survive and have a happy ending. If he does end unhappily, however, the handling of that one hypothetical character arc wouldn't affect how I would feel about the handling of other arcs within the same show.

I think that in order to say that you really like or dislike something (an actual work, not an idea), that you have to have read it. You can have an opinion about the actual premise, but you can't have an issue with the execution of said premise until you've read it. As much as you hate the idea of one of your favorite characters dying, could you accept it if they were killed off "well"? Granted, Star Trek doesn't generally deal with character death well, but if Janeway got a send-off worthy of Spock's death in TWOK (which, remember, was intended to be permanent), then could you be satisfied wtih the execution of, well, that execution even if you didn't like the idea?

I also just recently got into BSG, but I have seen the whole series, so I won't spoil it for you. The major difference for me is that BSG was dark from beginning to end. You know that every character has a chance of either dying or being a cylon, so you can easily manage your expectations and not get too emotionally attached to any one character.

With Janeway's death it's quite different. She is a character that I knew and loved for seven years and grew very attached to emotionally. Not having read Full Cirlce, I would never claim to be able to have an opinion of the book overall. From the reviews I've read so far it appears to be an excellent story. I'm just not fond of that level of angst. I think that people who are fans of Trek and even some J/C shippers who like a really good deep emotional story will love it. I also think that inspite of what Pocketbooks has said, there's always a chance for Janeway to be resurrected in later stories, but for now we have to assume she's dead and will stay that way.

For me it would just be easier to cope with if I knew she was coming back, but that might not serve the overall story. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Lynx]

In my opinion the Voyager books have been below standard for years and for that very reason I gave up reading them a long time ago. They just didn't interest me enough.

I'm not even remotely tempted, and since I know what's going to happen it seems unjustly cruel to subject myself and my surroundings to the bitching that's bound to follow such an ending.

Besides there's many other books I'd like to buy - mostly within the crime genre.

Had this book ended differently than it does, it just might have been my first Star Trek book in 8 or 9 years, but since it doesn't...no thanks.

I started to buy the Voyager books in 1997, a couple of months after I've discovered this fantastic series and I was very pleased with the books which were written and produced during seasons 1-3.

I bought the first 15 books in the series plus "Mosaic", "Pathways", "Flashback" and "Day Of Honor-Her Klingon Soul", all of them great reading. In fact, I do find some of the books, like "The Black Shore" by Greg Cox, "Marooned" by Christie Golden, "her Klingon Soul" by Michael Jan Friedman and some other books as good as or even better than most of the TV episodes.

I did stop buying the books when Kes was kicked out, simply because I couldn't stand the season 4-7 scenario. However, I did buy the "Dark Matters" trilogy by Christie Golden. They were OK but not as good as the older books.

When the relaunch started, I bought "Homecoming" and later on "The Farther Shore" which I was a bit dissapointed with. I had and still has problems with the crew being split-up and there were a few things I did find confusing and dissapointing. I had expected that some of the worst stupidities and errors from the TV series should be corrected (and in one case it was) but there was still a feeling like "is that all there is?"

I did write a review after reading "Homecoming" and I'm gonna be big-headed enough to quote a part of it which actually describes my feelings after reading it:

A relative of mine is an ardent fan of a certain rock band which had some international success in the end of the 60:s and beginning of the 70:s. My relative is a collector of things related to the band, albums, bootlegs from different concerts, videos, posters, books. But he steadily refuses to buy any of the solo albums the leading band members have done in recent years because he finds their current music lightweighted, adapted and too far away from the magic that the band members created together back in the good, old days. The magic isn’t there anymore.
I get a similar feeling when I read “Homecoming”. As I said before, it’s well-written and there will probably be some interesting things in future Voyager stories but it will never be the same as when they were together in the Delta Quadrant, alone, facing unknown dangers and wonder if they ever would return to Earth. The magic isn’t there anymore!

However, I still had hopes for the relaunch, thinking that there would show up some interesting things in the future so I did buy "Spirit Walk-Old Wounds" as well but wasn't that impressed with that one either.

But I always stated in many debates on different forums that I regarded the relaunch books as "canon" and that I saw the events in them as the ongoing, continuing stories of the Voyager crew. I also adapted my own fan-fiction writing to the events and personal changes of the relaunch.

However, all that has come to an end with the killing off of Janeway, something I simply refuse to accept. I no longer have any interest in the Voyager relaunch books, I don't consider them as canon and I refuse to read any of them until Janeway is brought back.

 

[KimMH]

^^^

What did you think of the String Theory series? I am 2/3 through book one and am enjoying B'Elanna and Seven stuck together and don't hate the other part of the story - Monorhans and thier dying planet - surprised Janeway's initial response to the destruction of the Monorhan ship isn't depicted - almost seems like a cop-out, though.

 

[MilitantJaneway]

^^^^ I liked book 1 and 2 ( which was why I was really excited about KB given the job of writing FC) but I have to say book 3 was a disappointment. Very long winded and confusing.

 

[Lynx]

^^^

What did you think of the String Theory series? I am 2/3 through book one and am enjoying B'Elanna and Seven stuck together and don't hate the other part of the story - Monorhans and thier dying planet - surprised Janeway's initial response to the destruction of the Monorhan ship isn't depicted - almost seems like a cop-out, though.

I think that the String Theory books were OK. The story was a bit weird and a bit heavy to read, a bit difficult to keep everything in memory and sort out everything but they were exciting and good written.

I liked book 3 most because of how they tried to explain the events in "Fury". They managed to get rid of the worst damage made to Kes and restore the character in a decent way, even if I wasn't too happy with the ending, she should have stayed on the ship or at least there should been an option for it for the future.

But despite that, I'm quite happy with how the stupidities forom "Fury" were corrected and I'm quite happy with the whole book series.

Militant Janeway wrote:

I liked book 1 and 2 ( which was why I was really excited about KB given the job of writing FC) but I have to say book 3 was a disappointment. Very long winded and confusing.

I can see your point there. Since you are a fan of Janeway I can understand that you weren't too pleased with book 3. Her role in that one was a bit laid-back to say the least.

 

[neogothboy74]

I also enjoyed the first 2 'String Theory' books best, though I wouldn't recommend only reading the first 2. I just liked the style of writing better in the first 2, and I'm sure there will be others who enjoy the writing in the 3rd. It wasn't really the story content, as I felt the story from volume to volume remained strong. In fact I love what they did for Kes in the final book, including where her character ended up; I thought that was a very poetic ending - just the writing style made it hard for me get through. I've enjoyed the Heather Jarman stories I've read (her Mission Gamma book comes to mind) but her writing doesn't connect with my wacky brain as easily as some other writers (like Jeffrey Lang's who's books I breeze through). But I loved how the characters were written, with most of them coming off better than they had in years.

One of the big things I loved about the trilogy was that it didn't just ignore huge plot holes in the series, but actually seemed interested in explaining why things happened in the series the way that they did - making it easier for those of us who wanted to love the series, but couldn't because of all the flaws we saw. That was really important (and impressive) to me as a fan. It's not a perfect set, but I'm grateful for the attempt.

Heather Jarman (from "Voyages of the Imagination"):

"We had several goals with the trilogy. First was to give Voyager fans something to sink their teeth in. The reality is that Voyager is the redheaded stepchild of Trek fandom. It is the easiest series to kick around whenever Trek fans want to mock something. Being Voyager fans ourselves and knowing that we weren't idiots, we decided to respect the fans' intelligence and give them something juicy. Second, we had a long list of continuity bugaboos and complaints about episodes and characters that we felt were never adequately addressed. For example, why is Janeway such a nutcase at the beginning of season five? Where did B'Elanna's self-inflicted pain/suffering come from? How did Tom get into Captain Proton? Why does Seven of Nine act like she runs the ship and can tell people what to do? Don't get me started on the problems with 'Fury' (Kes' return)! As we went through our laundry list of issues, we looked for ways to 'fix' the things that bugged us. Third, we also had a list of things we never saw or were never fully dealt with that we wanted to deal with because we thought it would be fun. Tom and B'Elanna's relationship went underground during Roxann Dawson's pregnancy, for example, so we got very little folow-up after episodes like 'Scientific Method'. Getting into B'Elanna's head during this timeframe was wonderful. How did Neelix feel about Kes being gone? And the chance to deal with lesser-used characters like Tuvok was a joy."

As I said, I'm not sure if what they came up with was the best way to deal with the questions that they (and I) had, but I respect the effort and ambition of their trilogy. And I'd welcome any other in-series novels that had similar goals.

To get this thread back on topic, all this talk of 'Full Circle' has made me decide to read the book sooner than I had planned, though how soon that will be, I don't know. And I have to confess that every time I see the abbreviated title 'FC' I think "Star Trek: First Contact" and then have to remind my brain what people are really talking about.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I don't know what everyone is fussing about. Novels aren't canon. In the unlikely event that the TV/movie people decide to revive VOY characters, there's nothing stopping them from bringing back Janeway, either played by Kate Mulgrew or eventually, recast the role. Elizabeth Moss from Mad Men would be my choice.

Killing characters in novels doesn't do anything to prevent their re-appearance on screen. Janeway's been killed half a million times in fanfic - so have all the other characters - doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[BORU]

Read it...wasn't bad.


****Spoilers just in case****

My problem with the book has nothing to do with the current author and everything to do with the previous author.

PAD doesn't like Voyager, he has said so before, so why have him involved in a book or allow him to kill off a character that he doesn't like nor respect?

Never made any sense to me then...doesn't now.

I like KB's style and probably will read more of her works as it pertains to Voyager I just have to get use to Kathryn and Chuckles not being Kathryn and Chuckles.

I guess I have to get over it but it seems to me that they would have never allowed one of the boyz to be killed off. I mean the original Enterprise without Kirk? TNG without Picard at the helm...no way!

And that is my problem with the new books because for me, and only my opinion, its not a Voyager story without the original Voyageress at the helm (yes, its a made up word, sue me)

It has nothing to do with the new characters because I realize that the old ones some day would have move on or that whole pesky dying thing would get in the way, it just seems she was killed off for no reason other than PAD secret wish to off her.

I don't get it. Never will.

However having said that, give the book a read, you might find you enjoy it but read it with the understanding that things do and have changed.

I'm still pissed at PAD for killing off Si Cwan! Then he went and did this so he's seriously on the top of my list of evil people that have too much power and a computer.

Drat him.

Seriously...the book is pretty good - maybe we just need to see where she goes with the characters.

 

[Lynx]

I don't know what everyone is fussing about. Novels aren't canon. In the unlikely event that the TV/movie people decide to revive VOY characters, there's nothing stopping them from bringing back Janeway, either played by Kate Mulgrew or eventually, recast the role. Elizabeth Moss from Mad Men would be my choice.

Killing characters in novels doesn't do anything to prevent their re-appearance on screen. Janeway's been killed half a million times in fanfic - so have all the other characters - doesn't bother me one bit.

I have to disagree with some points here.

Since the TV series has ended and believe me, there will be no more Voyager TV series, the books are the continuing stories of the Voyager crew, "canon" or not. For many of us who wants to follow the adventures of our favorites, the books has been the only possibility to do that (together with fan-fiction). Therefore the annihilation of a beloved favorite who also happens to be the main character has more and less taken away the fun of reading those books for many fans.

It's also a matter of principles. They shouldn't be allowed to kill off a main character just like that, insult the fans (deliberately or not) and just get away with it.

As for a future re-cast of the Voyager characters, I'm very critical to that. I don't think I would watch a single episode of a "re-cycled" Voyager with other actors than them we did se in the real TV series. That's another reason for having the books and fanfiction.

As for main characters being killed off in fanfiction, I can't understand those who comes up with such stories. I wouldn't dream on killing off a single main character in my stories.

 

[neogothboy74]

It's also a matter of principles. They shouldn't be allowed to kill off a main character just like that, insult the fans (deliberately or not) and just get away with it.

First let me say that this post is not meant to insult anyone, or hurt anybody's feelings. It's not meant to cause arguments or raise anyone's ire... It's an expression of my own growing frustration with reactions that I find hard to comprehend. This subject is something I'm struggling with, and this forum has been helpful with that. And I'd just like to thank anyone who reads this and gets what I'm saying, because I'm not sure I'm expressing it as well as I would like.

Anyways......

I find the idea of characters not dying insulting - and I'm a fan. I think when characters are allowed to die it shows a respect for life - for the truth of existance, and respect for the audience; I certainly don't feel insulted or slighted. I love tv shows and movies where well written, well loved characters die. Buffy. Angel. Firefly. (God Bless Joss) Battlestar Galactica. Doctor Who. Oh. And sometimes Star Trek. To put characters in dangerous and often violent situations and not have consquences is unbelievable and irresponsible. I'm not opposed to Janeway returning at some point as long as it's earned; as long as it's well written - I mean, the whole Q thing kind of lends itself to her coming back. Hopefully the next time she dies (because if you bring her back as a human, she will die again) it won't be sugar coated. I'm not anti-Janeway. Call me morbid, but I look forward to seeing all my favorite characters dying (if I live long enough), and getting to know other characters along the way. Seeing characters that I care about deal with death, helps me come to terms with my own mortality. Death is a real thing that happens to real people (and will happen to every member of this board and everyone they know, and everyone they don't know) - and I like to see that subject explored, reflected and embraced. It comforts me.

Is that crazy?

And I can't for the life of me (pun intended) understand some of the comments I've read from "Voyager fans" or "Star Trek fans" or "Janeway fans" who've said that now that they know how & when Janeway dies that they can't take pleasure from reading any new or old stories set when she was still alive - that somehow knowing that she dies ruins it. We all know that we will die - that our friends and family will die - but we don't cut them out of our lives to avoid that outcome...do we? We don't block out the happy memories of dead loved ones...do we? I don't. And I look forward to any new stories featuring Janeway that reveal new aspects to her chacter and celebrate the life she (fictitiously) led. Her death doesn't make her any less heroic or strong or any of the other words used to describe her during the series. Her death does not diminish her in any way.

People get angry when there is a death. That's human nature. But the denial of death isn't healthy. A lot of what I'm 'hearing' sounds like people are thinking that Janeway is being treated as 'less than' or is somehow 'less than' for having been allowed to die. I find that interesting as I feel it makes her more relatable. How dare 'they' treat her as if she were a human being? I don't get it. I hear rumblings about 'well Picard is older' or so & so has lived longer - but death doesn't just come when you're old and your story is finished and you've finally started to feel complete. It just doesn't. That's what makes this choice so perfect. The death of Janeway (flawed as it is with that Q nonsense) has filled me with hope for the future of Trek - and I don't hate Janeway, and I never have. If Picard or Crusher or Garak or Kira or Archer or iany other character had been the one to die I would be saying the very same thing, only I'd probably be saying it to a different group of people.

I understand giving up the trek book series if Janeway was the only character you liked, and she was the only thing about Trek that remotely interested you. I get that. But if you cared at all about the other characters that are still alive and kicking, I don't understand this abandonment mindset. It's just beyond me. It's an alien cocept that I can't quite grasp, because I've never followed a series where I only cared about one character - and nothing else. That wouldn't be enough to draw me to a series and keep me there.

When I get around to reading 'Full Circle' I think I'll like it. But if I don't, it won't have anything to do with any character's death.

Thanks for listening to me ramble.

 

[Frazzled]

I think I'll read it, it's not easy to get hold of here in England yet. I was cross to hear they'd killed off Janeway, but since I've been unfortunate enough to hear about her death I may as well find out more details - especially since all the reports are that Kirsten Beyer likes the character and handled it sensitively.

Before Dishonour was a cracking read but I don't think it gave Janeway enough attention or dignity for a book finishing off a main character - fair enough I suppose since it's a TNG book not VOY. But I'd like to see that put right and all the stuff I've read on here implies FC does that.

Don't think I'll bother with any more trek lit set after it though (famous last words....)

 

[kimc]

I guess I have to get over it but it seems to me that they would have never allowed one of the boyz to be killed off. I mean the original Enterprise without Kirk? TNG without Picard at the helm...no way!

Sad but true.

 

[Defcon]

it just seems she was killed off for no reason other than PAD secret wish to off her.

It wasn't his decision to kill her, he was explicitly instructed by the editor Margaret Clark to kill her off.

 

[Frazzled]

Seeing characters that I care about deal with death, helps me come to terms with my own mortality. Death is a real thing that happens to real people (and will happen to every member of this board and everyone they know, and everyone they don't know) - and I like to see that subject explored, reflected and embraced. It comforts me.

Is that crazy?

The reason I watch/read trek is to escape from reality for a while, which is why I was cross that Janeway died, I liked the way that up til Before Dishonour she cheated death at every turn, and the rest of them continue to do so. It's a break from the harsh real life we face, I got into trek again after a pants year or two.

So that makes me very different from you but I don't think you're crazy at all .... you sound like you engage with this stuff for equally valid reasons to me.

I certainly prefer to see death 'explored, reflected and embraced' than to see a main character killed with very little mention of how her death affects the others, which is why I'll probably read FC. Having stumbled upon the fact that she's been killed off it will be nice to dig into the emotional impact it causes. When I'm in the mood to

 

[Defcon]

If anyone is interested, an interview with Kirsten Beyer is now online at Unreality SF.