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SPOILER ALERT -- Review Myriad Universes: Infinity's Prism

Well, I prefer to go with the evident intent of "Space Seed"'s writers, that Khan wasn't a cardboard villain but a complex, nuanced, even admirable antagonist. Because that's interesting. Certainly a whole lot more interesting than the scenery-chewing lunatic he was reduced to in TWOK, which totally squandered the real sequel potential of "Space Seed." I can see him losing his way and becoming more tyrannical after many years of absolute power, because that tends to happen, but I don't want to let go of the idea of Khan as a nuanced and complex antagonist rather than a simplistically evil figure.

I agree with the sentiment but not the premise. The briefing room scene in "Space Seed" extolling Khan's virtues is through the perspective of characters far removed from the actual events and, going by Spock's dialogue earlier in the episode, expresses views based on records that were "fragmentary" at best. In my view that's the most unreliable part of the episode from which the audience could judge the character, so I would find it hard to believe the writers thought it represented the correct way to frame him.

That aside, Khan's every choice and every action in "Space Seed" betrayed his true colors as a rather unsophisticated, opportunistic brute: From his first act of holding McCoy at knifepoint upon awakening in sickbay, to his undisguised arrogance and superiority in interacting with the crew, to his physical intimidation and domination of Marla McGivers, to his hasty and ill-conceived plan to take over a starship while being outnumbered six-to-one (and whatever did he think he was going to accomplish against an entire fleet of such ships even if he had succeeded?), to his decision to blow up the ship when things weren't going his way. Far from "reducing" Khan to a "scenery-chewing lunatic," Wrath of Khan offered up characterization that was, to me, entirely consistent with the impatient, impulsive villain from the TV series.
 
^^Those are all good points. I guess it's just that Montalban played Khan in "Space Seed" as more of a noble, debonair figure. Certainly a man with flaws, with "superior ambition" that made him arrogant and overconfident, but still someone that I could believe was more than just a brutal tyrant from the get-go (although as I've said, I find it entirely plausible that he could've become more brutal in victory as Jim portrayed him in Seeds of Dissent).

I would disagree with this, though:
to his hasty and ill-conceived plan to take over a starship while being outnumbered six-to-one (and whatever did he think he was going to accomplish against an entire fleet of such ships even if he had succeeded?)

Given his people's superior abilities, such a coup could've succeeded; certainly we've seen plenty of Trek episodes where a small force has defeated a larger one (Kirk & co. on Eminiar VII, for instance). And he wouldn't have had to confront the rest of the fleet directly. It's a big galaxy; he could've taken the Enterprise beyond the Federation and built a power base in unaligned territory.

As for his attempt to blow up the ship, I always assumed that was a tactic to force Kirk into surrender.
 
I'm about 80ish pages into A Less Perfect Union and so far I'm loving it. I've always been a big fan of alternate universe stories, and so far this has been one of the best I've seen or read. I'll probably post more thoughts when I finish this either later this week or next week. Only read a little bit every day, so it usually takes me about 2 weeks to finish each book, although I'm also reading Greater Than the Sum, and The Good that Men Do so it will probably take me a longer than it usually does.
 
Finished it this weekend. Random comments:

A LESS PERFECT UNION - My favorite of the bunch. Not sure I have a lot to say about it other than I liked it a lot.

PLACES OF EXILE - I loved how the story diverges from a point in an episode. Actually made me watch the episode and it's not often a story makes me want to watch a Voyager episode. I got distracted though when the story went into the whole business about all the different universes co-existing. Yeah, we know they do but to me the story starts out with the idea that a different decision leads to different consequences then it goes into "well, they all exist anyway so it really doesn't matter". That's not what the story is saying but that's what I took away from it.

The other thing is, ya know, it is a Voyager story and I'm just less interested in the characters, situation, etc. Take Distant Voyagers for example, it's got many of the same authors that are in the other anthologies but I just found it less interesting as a whole than any of the other anthologies. Some of the stories are about character development that doesn't do much for me and I got the same feeling when reading this story. It's hard for me to be interested in Harry Kim's growth. When reading a story about it I'm not thinking "the author did a great job of this", I'm thinking, they had seven years to do this on the show, why couldn't they do that.

So all that being said I'm left with one aspect of the story I liked a lot, another not so much. And I don't know of any author that is going to make me say a delta quadrant Voyager story is interesting. And yeah, I know I'm being unfair but I can't help it. :lol:

And I use the caveat of "delta quadrant" because of KRAD who is my favorite Voyager writer because he's written three stories, none of which take place in the delta quadrant, and I liked them all.

SEEDS OF DISSENT - I agree with Marco and James here. Ignoring that conversation around the dinner table in the show, this is how Kahn acted in the rest of the episode, so yeah, I'm totally buying the violence during the take over of Earth.

There's a similarity here with the first story in that you have humans believing in their superiority. But in the first story where I could believe some humanity came through in the characters, I had a harder time buying that with Bashir. I don't know why but it just did. I just got into the story a bit less than with A Less Perfect Union.

So the bottom line is I liked the first story a lot, I just have less to say about books I like I guess, than the other two.

Now I'm on to the 2nd book...
 
A Less than Perfect Union is my favorite of the stories in this book. i really liked the alternate look into what happened after Terra Prime attack on Starfleet Headquarters and the aftermath that followed.T'Pol it was nice to see what happened to her. I liked how Pike and Kirk were both included in this story and the fact the Vulcans had flaws as well.
 
I just finished A Less Perfect Union last night, and I loved it. I've always been a big fan of alternate universe stories and this was one of my favorites in any form.
I really enjoyed the way that you developed the characters, they all were different from we say on screen, but at the same time they were still recognisable as the people we know. I think one of the best examples of this was Kirk, his attitude twoard aliens was not at all what we are used to from Kirk, but we did get to see some of this side of Kirk in Undiscovered Country. I also really liked the twist with Uhura being an SI (or was it 31?) agent.I also really enjoyed the use of T'Pol, like Kirk she had gone through a lot of changes but was still recognizeable as the same character. One of the things that really suprised me about this was the crew setup, I was expecting it to be just the regular TOS crew, but instead we got a combination of it and the WNMHGB cast.
I also really liked the story, especially the way that you were able to combine familiar elements, like the discovery SS Columbia, the Babel Conference, and the return of the Romulans into a new original story. I hadn't read anything by William Leisner before this, but now I am really looking forward to his SCE/Corps of Engineers stories and Losing the Peace.
Rating: 9/10
 
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I need to find a way to bottle all this ego-boosting, and save it for when I'm just getting savaged. (Probably around when the synopsis for LTP is released -- "Jeezus, another g'damned Destiny follow-up?")

Thanks for the feedback, all. :D
 
Totally loved James Swallow's reference to The Doctor's (Doctor Who) companions.

Well spotted!

Where was the reference?

On p. 417, Shaun Christopher is mourning the five crewmembers who died of sleeper-pod failure: Brown, Tyler, McShane, Summerfield, and Jones. Those are Peri Brown (companion of the 5th/6th Doctors), Rose Tyler (companion of the 9th/10th Doctors), Dorothy "Ace" McShane (7th Doctor companion, only given a last name in the books), Professor Bernice Summerfield (7th Doctor companion from novels and audios), and Martha Jones (10th Doctor companion).
 
That aside, Khan's every choice and every action in "Space Seed" betrayed his true colors as a rather unsophisticated, opportunistic brute: From his first act of holding McCoy at knifepoint upon awakening in sickbay, to his undisguised arrogance and superiority in interacting with the crew, to his physical intimidation and domination of Marla McGivers, to his hasty and ill-conceived plan to take over a starship while being outnumbered six-to-one (and whatever did he think he was going to accomplish against an entire fleet of such ships even if he had succeeded?), to his decision to blow up the ship when things weren't going his way. Far from "reducing" Khan to a "scenery-chewing lunatic," Wrath of Khan offered up characterization that was, to me, entirely consistent with the impatient, impulsive villain from the TV series.


yep, sorta put together how i felt about the character.

it certainly put a lie to the notion that khan didnt attack until attack.

we got a look at how the mythology of a historical character in the end dosnt jibe with the cruel reality of what the person really was like.

i just found it odd after all khan did that some of them still seemed enamored of him at the end.


it was as if the compelling mystique of the myth in the end was stronger then the reality they had just experienced.
 
Just picked up Infinity's Prism today - and I enjoyed it, although I did note a few things.


*The name 'Interstellar Coalition' sounds quite close to that of the Interstellar Concordium (ISC) in the Star Fleet Universe - well, the various member species of the ISC do not include any 'TV empires', and have a history apart from that of the Federation (until the events of the Pacification, at least) - but I suppose that it's just a coincidence.

And the line about the Interplanetary Coalition is on page 164, but since it refers to the Diplomatic Council in particular, perhaps said Council has some reason or another to have an alternate name?


*Places of Exile was an interesting take on a premise I had long thought would be a fun one - what would happen if Voyager stayed in Delta - though I would have chosen an alternate point of divergence.

And ironically, the premise is not entirely different to one I was hoping to flesh out in an alternate setting, eventually.

Hard not to feel that such efforts, based around Voyager or the alternate setting, are made pretty redundant when you see work like this, however.

Can't say I'm too sold on how eagerly the Delta Coalition offered to sign up to the UFP, though.


*There's something about the premise of Seeds of Dissent that doesn't quite chime.

For me, I think that there is just a little too much stock in the idea that 'the truth will set us free' - there have been plenty of empires in history which had self-constructed founding mythologies, but in which it hardly mattered whether or not they were charades.

It's one thing to try and argue against white-washing founding myths in countries which at least claim to represent ideals of liberty and equality - the Thirteen Colonies were far from wholly united in their revolt, the rebels were far from wholly altruistic in their policies, and far from wholly innocent in their post-independence behaviour, but at least the principle of liberty which was upheld as a couse for revolt (a principle not all that different from the concept of liberty that loyalists were happy to proclaim, and carry with them into exile to Canada and elsewhere) means that one can try to raise these issues with at least some hope of seeing them addressed.

It's quite another in an empire where the concept of personal liberty was never on the cards - and in those cases, it's often the case of the 'truth' being that an outside aggressor, or economic collapse, or virulent pandemic can cause the death knell of such empires...

...but even if a new empire takes over, how often is it the case that those wishing to be rid of the new conquerors do so out of a wish to go back to their last rulers, rather than set up a liberal democratic society?

(The main internal resistance to the Yuan Dynasty came from those who wanted to have a Han Chinese on the throne rather than a Mongol conqueror - and yet, even then, later governments were not shy of claiming the likes of Kublai as being 'Zhonghua Minzu' to suit their own needs.)

And even if everyone knew - knows - that such claims were, shall we say, less than wholly accurate, it still leaves those with the power to call the shots (literally and figuratively) in a position to enforce their will.


Yes, such repudiation of official ideologies can play a role in toppling states - but then, there are many ways to skin a cat, and the example of how Chakotay dealt with the hidebound Voth in Places of Exile has its merits, when it comes to trying to shift ideals and policies over time.

You don't always have to shoot your way to change, and sometimes if you try to take out a Big Lie in one fell swoop, you can end up with another Big Lie in its place.

Sometimes it takes tapping away at a hundred Little Lies instead.



Oh yeah, and it's kind of a shame the wormhole hadn't been discovered - or that in alternate universe fics I've seen, the Dominion never seem to be the ones to go through it first.

Or, at least, first to make contact 'on-screen', as it were.
 
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*The name 'Interstellar Coalition' sounds quite close to that of the Interstellar Concordium (ISC) in the Star Fleet Universe - well, the various member species of the ISC do not include any 'TV empires', and have a history apart from that of the Federation (until the events of the Pacification, at least) - but I suppose that it's just a coincidence.

No doubt. The term is a variation on "Coalition of Planets," the name established onscreen for the alliance proposed in "Demons"/"Terra Prime" which would eventually become the UFP. So the "Coalition" part comes from ENT, and "interstellar" is a very common word.

*Places of Exile was an interesting take on a premise I had long thought would be a fun one - what would happen if Voyager stayed in Delta - though I would have chosen an alternate point of divergence.

Which point would you have chosen?
 
And the line about the Interplanetary Coalition is on page 164, but since it refers to the Diplomatic Council in particular, perhaps said Council has some reason or another to have an alternate name?

No, author William Leisner has confirmed in this thread and in a PM to me that that was a printing error. It was supposed to be "Interstellar Coalition" all the way through.
 
*The name 'Interstellar Coalition' sounds quite close to that of the Interstellar Concordium (ISC) in the Star Fleet Universe - well, the various member species of the ISC do not include any 'TV empires', and have a history apart from that of the Federation (until the events of the Pacification, at least) - but I suppose that it's just a coincidence.

100% coincidence.
And the line about the Interplanetary Coalition is on page 164, but since it refers to the Diplomatic Council in particular, perhaps said Council has some reason or another to have an alternate name?

No, author William Leisner has confirmed in this thread and in a PM to me that that was a printing error. It was supposed to be "Interstellar Coalition" all the way through.
*sigh* Yep.
 
No doubt. The term is a variation on "Coalition of Planets," the name established onscreen for the alliance proposed in "Demons"/"Terra Prime" which would eventually become the UFP. So the "Coalition" part comes from ENT, and "interstellar" is a very common word.

100% coincidence.

Noted.

Although, I'd love to see the Concordium, as opposed to the Coalition, get more print-time, but how and ever...

Which point would you have chosen?
I would have gone with the point in the episode "the '37s" - where in the TV timeline, the cargo bay where anyone choosing to say with the humans of the former Briori slave-colony was empty.

I would have had the majority of the crew be present, and have Voyager help turn the Three Cities into the core of a pocket stellar power (since as humans, the Prime Directive would be up for debate, at least) while taking more of an effort to explore the region - both exploring to coreward, as well as returning to worlds such as Sikaris.

I'd have a smaller facility designed to build this timeline's equivalent of Delta Flyers, which would facilitate exploration. Also, I'd have have either Voyager or one of said Flyers encounter the Equinox, and integrate it and its surviving crew into the mix.

Oh, and I would have had the Aeroshuttle be installed in the ship, and used for exploration purposes.

The long-term goal of trying to reach the UFP would still be on the cards - but one of a range of goals pursued alongside the children of the '37s - including an attempt to uncover the mystery of the Briori themmsrelves.


But as I said, it feels somewhat redundant to try a story like that, when yours does so well to cover the 'stay in Delta' angle. And in any event, I have a plan to write a story about the Federal Republic of Aurora, which would have a similar premise (setting up a new society in a distant corner of the galaxy) albeit in an alternate setting.
 
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Which point would you have chosen?
I would have gone with the point in the episode "the '37s" - where in the TV timeline, the cargo bay where anyone choosing to say with the humans of the former Briori slave-colony was empty.

I would have had the majority of the crew be present, and have Voyager help turn the Three Cities into the core of a pocket stellar power (since as humans, the Prime Directive would be up for debate, at least) while taking more of an effort to explore the region - both exploring to coreward, as well as returning to worlds such as Sikaris.

Hmm, I can see that, except it's not as dramatic if the crew just happens to decide to stay there as if they're forced to stay and have to learn to live with that reality. Also, there's the question of why the change happens. In terms of character motivation, if none of the crew were willing to stay in the main timeline, I don't see how there could be a timeline in which over a hundred people would have come to such a different conclusion, unless the timeline had already diverged in such a way that preceding events had led those people to a very different state of mind by that point.
 
Ultimately, though, aren't all points of divergeance essentially random? Once you trace a parralel universe down to the precise moment where the two split, you can't go any further to explain the discrepency except to say 'it happened this way'.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
Ultimately, though, aren't all points of divergeance essentially random? Once you trace a parralel universe down to the precise moment where the two split, you can't go any further to explain the discrepency except to say 'it happened this way'.

That's not how probability works. If there's a good probability of something happening either way, then it's reasonable that the divergence could've occurred. Paxton's attack on Starfleet HQ had a good chance of succeeding. Khan had a realistic chance of winning the war. Chakotay could've easily gone either way in his argument with Janeway because he was so conflicted. And so on. In those cases, it would only take a minor, subtle variation for things to turn out differently.

But if we're talking about a single moment, a single day, in which over a hundred people simultaneously choose to make a completely opposite choice from the one they made in the main timeline, that's a vanishingly improbable scenario. If nothing else had been different prior to that moment, it's possible that maybe a few people who were really on the fence could've spontaneously decided otherwise. But the majority of the crew? No. Human decisions are not that random. If a person is so uncertain, so divided, that the decision comes down to the flip of a coin, then it makes sense. But if a person has a specific set of reasons for making a decision a certain way, then they wouldn't arbitrarily make the opposite decision at the same moment, not in any timeline. The divergence would've had to come sooner, with events proceeding differently enough that most of the crew would have been given good reason to decide differently.
 
Well, perhaps the decisions made were not so clear-cut as it may have seemed.

Perhaps many of the crew were wavering, and could have gone either way - but were swayed by any number of factors, be it advice from committed go-homers, a relative lack of exposure to the Three Cities and/or the '37s (how many of the crew got to leave the ship and go sight-seeing?) or what kind of overtures the Three Cities' authorities made to try and convince Voyager's crew to stay.

Perhaps there was a Kazon or Vidiian encounter closer to the system than there had been in the series - or even a ship which attempted to follow Voyager into the system itself. While the atmospheric effects of the world offer some degree of protection, an increased risk that the Three Cities could be conquered by a Kazon faction, or culled by a Vidiian heavy raid, could make it more pressing to those aboard ship concerned with the locals' well-being.

Indeed, as humans, they might feel obligated to defend who they would see as their own.

(However, there might be a divide in the means by which the Starfleet and Maquis crewmembers might see as the best means of protecting the system from attack - the Starfleeters looking to build alliances with the likes of the Sikarians and others, while the Maquis seeking to launch their own operations aimed at de-stabilising Kazon or Vidiian operations nearby. Indeed, if more than one Kazon sect was relatively nearby, perhaps the ex-Maquis would seek to make it easier for the sects to fight each other, rather than mount a joint invasion force?)



Oh, and did you know that here in Ireland (and in the UK), the episode "The '37s" was presented as the finale of season 1, not the opener of season 2?
 
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