Spock's Rank?
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Gary Mitchell could've been the First Officer in WNMHGB and Spock could've been Second Officer without the need for an unseen First Officer until "Dagger of the Mind". Spock could've been assuming the role of First Officer in the absense of Gary Mitchell until the position was made permanent.
A similar thing happened to Worf after Yar died. He retained his red uniform until the beginning of the second season where his appointment to Chief Security Officer was permanent.
A similar thing happened to Worf after Yar died. He retained his red uniform until the beginning of the second season where his appointment to Chief Security Officer was permanent.
This is just one of those things that was screwed up from the beginning and you can't really make anything good from it. Spock, after WNMHGB, always wore what we know as "commander" insignia, but was referred to as "lieutenant commander" several times. But so were LCDRs Finney and Giotto. Spock is called "commander," but as noted above that can also be short for lieutenant commander. So, TOS on-screen canon indicates most strongly that two stripes and one-and-a-half stripes both indicate the rank of lieutenant commander. It's not till TMP that we get on-screen confirmation on two stripes for full commander.
This is, of course, silly, so I simply ignore what is onscreen and think that Spock was always a full commander (after WNMHG, anyway) and Finney and Giotto actually wore 1.5 stripes.
I don't follow. First officer is pretty firmly established as the title for the second-in-command.
--Justin
This is, of course, silly, so I simply ignore what is onscreen and think that Spock was always a full commander (after WNMHG, anyway) and Finney and Giotto actually wore 1.5 stripes.
I don't follow. First officer is pretty firmly established as the title for the second-in-command.
--Justin
With an absent first officer, the second officer would be second-in-command.
Well since you put it that way... LOL!! Your point is well taken though (as are the others that appear subsequently).
Ah, thank you, I'm with you now. That would make sense, but personally I think the evidence is most strongly in favor of Spock being first officer/2iC in WNMHGB, and since Mitchell was not just absent but dead Spock would more likely refer to himself as first officer or at least acting first officer.
--Justin
For all we know, for the mission to the galaxy's edge, Kirk could have a used a flexible command structure where the role of first officer was rotated between his top Lt.Commanders (Spock, Mitchell, Scott). Maybe Mitchell was first officer for the outbound voyage, Spock then assumed the role once the main scientific portion started, and Scott was slated for the return trip. Maybe tryouts for an upcomming 5 year mission...
^ I would say no. Spock wears the same color and the same division badge as the Captain, while Mitchell wears the same as Scotty and others. Spock gives (shouts!) orders to various bridge stations, while Mitchell tends to the helm/nav section. Mitchell also is off duty and not summoned to the bridge the way one would expect the second-in-command would be, he comes of his own accord. The evidence is heavily on the side of Spock being F/O.
--Justin
--Justin
I've always assumed Spock held the rank of commander from The Corbomite Maneuver onward given that he wore the stripes of a full commander throughout the series. I think references to Spock as a lt. commander are the result of the writers and the other powers that be not having a full understanding of military rank. I also think it was just a wardrobe mistake in Devil in the Dark having the security chief wearing full commander stripes, but yet referred to as lt. commander, although that always has bugged me whenever I watch that episode.
My son just asked me tonight if we could watch The Corbomite Maneuver - so we did. It hadn't occurred to me since starting this thread that, Spock is in command as the episode opens (while Kirk is in sickbay). Although this doesn't clarify much in terms of his rank, it does lend credence to the idea (proffered by others in this thread) that he was, indeed, being depicted as First Officer.
Of course, as you correctly point out, the two solid gold braids on his sleeves are pretty obvious. Given all the other little details that had yet to be fully fleshed out that early in the series, I tend to agree with you that the rank issue was really just an oversight on the part of the writers and/or production team.
That could be argued, but it's not conclusive.
Spock could simply be the OIC, and the XO could be off-watch, or on leave.
Yes that's correct. But, as I recall, that's in the 2nd season episode Amok Time by which point it had been fairly well established that Spock was, indeed, XO.
True true. However, what other main character who is not depicted in this episode could fit the bill?
Geez. Next thing I know you'll be attacking MASH for its "poor planning" because Klinger's bloodtype changed depending on the script.
The simplest solution is that Gary Mitchell is the XO in WNMHGB. After which, the Enterprise returns to a starbase, undergoes a uniform change (all your preconceptions about the rank stripes and insignias are wrong for WNMHGB), swaps Piper for McCoy, and generally sets off for a five-year mission. As someone pointed out, Spock's paperwork might not have come through by that point and JTK could've given him a brevet promotion until the paperwork did arrive later in the first season.
As far as others of command rank aboard, there is the guy in ALTERNATIVE FACTOR who is a navigator with commander's stripes. I've often wondered if this was Commander Kenner, mentioned in MIRROR, MIRROR. But I think he's more of a night shift kind of guy...
Commander Lipshitz was the first officer in the beginning. We never saw him because he took the "night shift." The shift where nothing. Ever. Happens.
Finally tired of being bored out of his mind, Lipshitz transferred out. Spock got a kick upstairs and DeSalle took the night shift (which was why he was always so cranky).
The armbraids are like beads at Mardi Gras. They don't mean anything really, just how often you show your tits. Apparently Spock showed his more than Bones or Scotty.
I think that all makes perfect sense.
Finally tired of being bored out of his mind, Lipshitz transferred out. Spock got a kick upstairs and DeSalle took the night shift (which was why he was always so cranky).
The armbraids are like beads at Mardi Gras. They don't mean anything really, just how often you show your tits. Apparently Spock showed his more than Bones or Scotty.
I think that all makes perfect sense.
Wasn't Uhura with Spock when he showed his tits? I think that's why she could get away with singing a song poking fun at him while he was sitting right next to her strumming his Vulcan Harp/Lute/Lyre thingy.
As for Lipshitz, didn't he buy the farm on another ship (Exeter maybe?) because his shirt was red?
Geez. Next thing I know you'll be attacking MASH for its "poor planning" because Klinger's bloodtype changed depending on the script.
Nah, but I'd criticize MASH because they showed a lot of three-stripe buck sergeants at a time when the Army didn't use that insignia!
I'd say it's simpler to just ignore the single early "second officer" reference. Spock is referred to as second-in-command in "Dagger of the Mind" (9th episode aired, 11th produced) and as first officer in "The Menagerie" (11th, 16th). In "The Enemy Within," he calls himself second officer but is clearly performing as next-in-command after Kirk. And if it's a case of absence of the "official" F/O, Spock would be more likely to call himself "acting first officer" just as he called himself acting captain in other episodes (as did Number One in "The Cage").
A brevet rank is an archaic system of using higher rank as a reward, but with little or no real authority. That situation would be an "acting" promotion. Sorry, just a bit of a pet project with the terminology, there.
--Justin
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