We don't need to know ANYTHING Spock Prime does. He was a plot devise to create the new story line and that's over. Building him back in would be like retreading TYWOK and I already bought the DVD. Not interested.
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Spock's Conscience/Should Spock warn _____ about ______?
- Thread starter Believer Bob
- Start date
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Besides, Old/Prime Spock knows about altering history from all his past adventures in Starfleet. He knows that to say or do too much when trapped in the past(even if it's already been altered beyond your chances of correcting all by yourself)can have dire consequences.
What I think Future Spock should have done
First off, I would have Spock warn Romulus about their enevitable destruction.
Also, Spock can help the Federation develop 24th century technology in the 23rd centuty so that the alternate Federation would develop faster than the Prime Universe Federation. And While Spock is helping the Federation, he should probably tell them about events that will cause them to lose billions of lives. Here is a few:
1) Warn them about the Borg. That way when Enterprise-D meets the Borg, they will already be prepared.
2) Warn them about the Dominion War.
3) War them about Q.
That's all I can think about this far.
First off, I would have Spock warn Romulus about their enevitable destruction.
Also, Spock can help the Federation develop 24th century technology in the 23rd centuty so that the alternate Federation would develop faster than the Prime Universe Federation. And While Spock is helping the Federation, he should probably tell them about events that will cause them to lose billions of lives. Here is a few:
1) Warn them about the Borg. That way when Enterprise-D meets the Borg, they will already be prepared.
2) Warn them about the Dominion War.
3) War them about Q.
That's all I can think about this far.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
Yeah great, and then completely fucks up the whole timeline. COMPLETELY.
Starfleet already know about the Borg, and Q probably won't be a problem. And the Dominion War, by the time that happens, with the New Enterprise being larger than the Enterprise-E, by the time the war happens, Starfleet will have an armada with Borg size ships.
Yeah great, and then completely fucks up the whole timeline. COMPLETELY.
Starfleet already know about the Borg, and Q probably won't be a problem. And the Dominion War, by the time that happens, with the New Enterprise being larger than the Enterprise-E, by the time the war happens, Starfleet will have an armada with Borg size ships.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
There are three problems with this:
1) Temporal Prime directive
2) The new alternative universe means things will not be exactly the same and may even be completely different. This means Spockprime would likely make problems much worse since more things can go wrong than right. (Murphy's law
)
3) It denies starfleets natural growth and compromises its skill to adapt against new threats.
There are three problems with this:
1) Temporal Prime directive
2) The new alternative universe means things will not be exactly the same and may even be completely different. This means Spockprime would likely make problems much worse since more things can go wrong than right. (Murphy's law
)3) It denies starfleets natural growth and compromises its skill to adapt against new threats.
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Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
Yeah, making any more of an impact than necessary is a very dangerous move, there really is no way to know how those changes would affect the future. He saved the present, then bowed out of the process.
Giving a huge amount of new technology opens up just as big a possibility for misuse. Somebody gets their hands on quantum torpedoes, all of a sudden they're the ruler of the Klingon Empire and a MAJOR decisionmaker for the future.
Yeah, making any more of an impact than necessary is a very dangerous move, there really is no way to know how those changes would affect the future. He saved the present, then bowed out of the process.
Giving a huge amount of new technology opens up just as big a possibility for misuse. Somebody gets their hands on quantum torpedoes, all of a sudden they're the ruler of the Klingon Empire and a MAJOR decisionmaker for the future.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
Given how the events for the Federation were already altered with the attack on the Kelvin and older Spock telling Kirk things from the future ... not to mention Nero destroying fleets of SF and Klingon ships (along with Vulcan) ... history was radically altered as it is.
Making things worse?
It's a possibility, but I would sooner say that merely helping them with development of newer technologies while also recovering losses and leaving everything else for them to figure out would be good.
Spock doesn't have to necessarily tell the Feds about the major threats.
He can allude to the possibility something could happen, but with the internal changes that happened in the Federation he cannot be sure how things will unfold when larger 'threats' come.
He can still leave it up to SF themselves to figure out a solution on their own ... but technologically, he can lend them a hand.
Plus, with the Kelvins destruction, that might have forced SF into making technological progression faster than expected, which also could have resulted in the Enterprise being larger than the Enterprise - E from the prime universe.
Given how the events for the Federation were already altered with the attack on the Kelvin and older Spock telling Kirk things from the future ... not to mention Nero destroying fleets of SF and Klingon ships (along with Vulcan) ... history was radically altered as it is.
Making things worse?
It's a possibility, but I would sooner say that merely helping them with development of newer technologies while also recovering losses and leaving everything else for them to figure out would be good.
Spock doesn't have to necessarily tell the Feds about the major threats.
He can allude to the possibility something could happen, but with the internal changes that happened in the Federation he cannot be sure how things will unfold when larger 'threats' come.
He can still leave it up to SF themselves to figure out a solution on their own ... but technologically, he can lend them a hand.
Plus, with the Kelvins destruction, that might have forced SF into making technological progression faster than expected, which also could have resulted in the Enterprise being larger than the Enterprise - E from the prime universe.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
Plus sending Spock off to help form a Vulcan colony keeps the focus on the new crew. Not that we couldn't have a whole series about time-travelling Spock, but I don't think that was the idea.
Plus sending Spock off to help form a Vulcan colony keeps the focus on the new crew. Not that we couldn't have a whole series about time-travelling Spock, but I don't think that was the idea.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
Spock did indeed try to warn Romulus of their impending doom -- the first time it happened.
They didn't believe him when the super-nova was sitting right in front of them; and they certainly wouldn't believe this unlikely-sounding set of events.
A big part of Nero's motivation comes from Romulans' longstanding, entrenched mistrust of Vulcans in general. It's why Nero believed Spock helped himself and the Federation and didn't help Romulus -- on purpose.
Spock did indeed try to warn Romulus of their impending doom -- the first time it happened.
They didn't believe him when the super-nova was sitting right in front of them; and they certainly wouldn't believe this unlikely-sounding set of events.
A big part of Nero's motivation comes from Romulans' longstanding, entrenched mistrust of Vulcans in general. It's why Nero believed Spock helped himself and the Federation and didn't help Romulus -- on purpose.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
Also he should warn them not to go to the Catspaw planet because this wouldn't do well at the box office.
Also he should warn them not to go to the Catspaw planet because this wouldn't do well at the box office.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
None of this would of worked. You got to remember, they are in an alternate timeline and even if Spock did warn them, things would turn out differently then he knew from his timeline.
None of this would of worked. You got to remember, they are in an alternate timeline and even if Spock did warn them, things would turn out differently then he knew from his timeline.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
I don't think there is a need for Spock to warn the Federation about any of these things. They handled it well the first time (in his timeline) with relatively good outcomes. What would he be trying to prove? Does he not believe they are as capable officers as he was in his time?
How does he know that preventing one problem wouldn't cause another greater problem to occur? There are always factors at work that we cannot predict. Just because Spock might have experienced something first hand doesn't make him suddenly the expert on it. He only has his own perspective to go on, and he is not all-knowing regarding every factor that influenced the outcome.
I don't think there is a need for Spock to warn the Federation about any of these things. They handled it well the first time (in his timeline) with relatively good outcomes. What would he be trying to prove? Does he not believe they are as capable officers as he was in his time?
How does he know that preventing one problem wouldn't cause another greater problem to occur? There are always factors at work that we cannot predict. Just because Spock might have experienced something first hand doesn't make him suddenly the expert on it. He only has his own perspective to go on, and he is not all-knowing regarding every factor that influenced the outcome.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
Yup, it's an entirely new timeline. If Spock goes around getting everybody all worked up over things that may never even happen, they might wind up with a lot of self fulfilling prophecies. I still think he can at least warn Romulus though.
Yup, it's an entirely new timeline. If Spock goes around getting everybody all worked up over things that may never even happen, they might wind up with a lot of self fulfilling prophecies. I still think he can at least warn Romulus though.
Re: What I think Future Spock should have done
I agree that history was altered ... but only in the context of how lives within the Federation will go from this movie on, along with the Klingons and possibly Romulans ...
V'Ger (not affected by the changes).
Whale probe (still coming)
Borg (still coming since the events from NX-01 Enterprise are still part of this alternate timeline).
Q might not be the only one who will be coming to the party ... then again, he doesn't necessarily have to be perceived as a threat to begin with.
Spock can lend a hand in a technological fashion and help SF to rebuild faster (he was responsible for Narada's presence in the 23rd century which resulted in mass destruction of SF/Klingon armadas AND planet Vulcan).
Given the fact that SF now has access to TW beaming, they will likely come up with numerous tech surprises from that alone.
He doesn't have to tell SF how to handle the large threats when they do come because he also must allow them to use their own wits.
I agree that history was altered ... but only in the context of how lives within the Federation will go from this movie on, along with the Klingons and possibly Romulans ...
V'Ger (not affected by the changes).
Whale probe (still coming)
Borg (still coming since the events from NX-01 Enterprise are still part of this alternate timeline).
Q might not be the only one who will be coming to the party ... then again, he doesn't necessarily have to be perceived as a threat to begin with.
Spock can lend a hand in a technological fashion and help SF to rebuild faster (he was responsible for Narada's presence in the 23rd century which resulted in mass destruction of SF/Klingon armadas AND planet Vulcan).
Given the fact that SF now has access to TW beaming, they will likely come up with numerous tech surprises from that alone.
He doesn't have to tell SF how to handle the large threats when they do come because he also must allow them to use their own wits.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Oh Spock...if you could???
These are things OLD SPOCK should do…please, I’d like to hear some of yours too..
1. Find TPRING and bitch slap her right now.
2. Find the BOTONY BAY and make sure its never found
3. Go stop the Talosians from kidnapping innocent folk who pass by.
4. Warn the Federation that those Andromedians are coming..huh?
5. And most important? Find Bela Oxmyx and tell him he’s a double-dumbass.
But knowing Spock as we all do, I am quite confident he will let the universe unfold as it will. He has the ‘hands off’ aspect of his existence to live up to.
Rob
These are things OLD SPOCK should do…please, I’d like to hear some of yours too..
1. Find TPRING and bitch slap her right now.
2. Find the BOTONY BAY and make sure its never found
3. Go stop the Talosians from kidnapping innocent folk who pass by.
4. Warn the Federation that those Andromedians are coming..huh?
5. And most important? Find Bela Oxmyx and tell him he’s a double-dumbass.
But knowing Spock as we all do, I am quite confident he will let the universe unfold as it will. He has the ‘hands off’ aspect of his existence to live up to.
Rob
It's an interesting question, but as many have pointed out, he's obviously committed to the Vulcan diaspora (as he should, since it keeps the two Spocks relatively separate, but still relevant). I imagine that he'll probably use some of his future insight in a more ambassadorial capacity, for example, accelerating the Romulan unification movement, and perhaps even trying to steer the resulting culture into something that doesn't distrust and hate everything around them, perhaps even joining the Federation at a later date. If he works for the Federation in any official capacity, it would likely be through the Diplomatic Corps, helping the Federation expand while using his timeline's insights to avoid major pitfalls along the way (like, for example, the Klingon/Federation conspiracy from the Undiscovered Country). In this way, the Federation could grow more organically while keeping it's core principles intact without having to resort to moral compromises like Section 31, et al that came up more and more frequently in the 24th century as things got more difficult.
This could have the effect of uniting the Alpha Quadrant well before the Enterprise-D, the Borg, Dominion, etc., making the 24 1/2 century a little less dramatic, but safer and more secure, and all without having to give up a whole bunch of future tech that would probably not really help out in the long run.
As for threats like Khan, The Probe, V'ger, etc:
Khan really wasn't much of a threat, at least to the Federation at large. He certainly was to Kirk personally, but his only danger to the galaxy at large was when he aquired the Genesis device, (something which, honestly, I could see future Spock trying to derail if at all possible, given all the negative repurcussions that resulted from it). But the worst Khan would have done is take over a starship or two, and probably disappear, since it's highly unlikely anyone, even with an advanced intellect like his, could have done anything like take over the Federation, or even Earth in the 23rd century. While arrogant, Khan wasn't stupid. Once he realized the logistics and realities of this era, he probably would have (rather ironically) settled on a world somewhere out in deepest space to build his own empire.
The whale probe... Even extinct, it would be possible to circumvent that disaster. It wouldn't take a whole lot of reveal, future Spock might just sponsor a side project somewhere having Federation scientists studying whalesongs and finding a means of using the Universal Translator to communicate with it. The major problem with the Probe was communication: no one could talk to it, or even know it was trying to talk. If the Federation knew right away it was trying to talk, I imagine the problem would be much simpler. Some clandestine research on the matter would probably work just fine for that.
V'ger might be a bit trickier, though... I'm not sure how to get around that one, exactly, though I'm sure it could be done, too, without spilling the Future bag.
This could have the effect of uniting the Alpha Quadrant well before the Enterprise-D, the Borg, Dominion, etc., making the 24 1/2 century a little less dramatic, but safer and more secure, and all without having to give up a whole bunch of future tech that would probably not really help out in the long run.
As for threats like Khan, The Probe, V'ger, etc:
Khan really wasn't much of a threat, at least to the Federation at large. He certainly was to Kirk personally, but his only danger to the galaxy at large was when he aquired the Genesis device, (something which, honestly, I could see future Spock trying to derail if at all possible, given all the negative repurcussions that resulted from it). But the worst Khan would have done is take over a starship or two, and probably disappear, since it's highly unlikely anyone, even with an advanced intellect like his, could have done anything like take over the Federation, or even Earth in the 23rd century. While arrogant, Khan wasn't stupid. Once he realized the logistics and realities of this era, he probably would have (rather ironically) settled on a world somewhere out in deepest space to build his own empire.
The whale probe... Even extinct, it would be possible to circumvent that disaster. It wouldn't take a whole lot of reveal, future Spock might just sponsor a side project somewhere having Federation scientists studying whalesongs and finding a means of using the Universal Translator to communicate with it. The major problem with the Probe was communication: no one could talk to it, or even know it was trying to talk. If the Federation knew right away it was trying to talk, I imagine the problem would be much simpler. Some clandestine research on the matter would probably work just fine for that.
V'ger might be a bit trickier, though... I'm not sure how to get around that one, exactly, though I'm sure it could be done, too, without spilling the Future bag.
I think it should be reiterated that technological knowledge isn't necessarily a good thing, especially if it wasn't obtained 'the hard way'. Sure, it might deal with an immediate threat, but it doesn't necessarily mean the society in question is any better off... or has the knowledge or expertise to know WHAT to do with it or HOW to go about it. Otherwise, helping the 3rd world out on Earth would be as simple as dumping a bunch of money and technology on poor nations and standing back, which anyone that keeps the slightest bit of interest in international affairs knows hasn't really worked thus far. Without a means of conveying or implementing social advancements as well as technological ones, which would require far more than one person with substantial future knowledge, I just don't see how giving Kirk's crew quantum torpedoes and cloaking devices is really going to help them out, especially if most of the threats didn't necessarily have to be dealt with via force... thus my hypothesis that if Spock Prime does anything with his knowledge, it'll be via the Diplomatic Corps rather than the Science Academy or Starfleet.
Re: Spock's Conscience
Remember that Spock has not amember of Starfleet for a very long time. He has been an ambasador for the federation therefore he would not be automatically aware of starfleets tactical specs and technology.
Remember that Spock has not amember of Starfleet for a very long time. He has been an ambasador for the federation therefore he would not be automatically aware of starfleets tactical specs and technology.
Spock Prime is in a new universe. He won't upset his timeline regardless of what he does, so yes, he should be a loyal Starfleet officer and warn everyone about whatever threats he thinks are relevant.
