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News Spock has already been cast

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Nimoy always played as someone with intense emotions and keeping them under control from what I've read. Not saying others have not played it differently but there have been many interpretations.

That's how the best Vulcans have played them. See also Mark Lenard, Kirstie Alley, etc. So you can see the deep emotions and feelings behind the stoic mask.

And let it noted that the Vulcan philosophy has never been presented as an ideal to aspire to. They're not role models. They're extremists, who are not nearly as logical as they like to pretend they are. Heck, even when Spock isn't losing control, both Kirk and McCoy can seldom resist calling him out whenever the "purely logical" pose slips a bit.

"In a pig's eye!" :)
 
Spock is pretty much the embodiment of this conflict, by being literally half Vulcan/ half human. But even with Sarek, T'Pol and Tuvok there have been story arcs exploring what happens when that rigid control/suppression slips.
But almost always it is some sort of external thing that is the catalyst. Drug, sickness, etc. Well, pon farr is not really external, but still an unusual condition. I mean there is usually some thing which somehow impedes their normal mental faculties, they just do not snap under stress.
 
Yeah. Those are not really out of the control situations. He is showing some some normal human emotions very briefly, which is understandable as he is after all half human. I'm talking about going totally psycho like in ST:09.

Please remind me, did that ever happen to Prime Spock without some sort of external influence? I mean did he ever go totally nuts because mere pressure of the situation, when not drugged, or sick etc? I don't remember it happening, but maybe I'm wrong?
But almost always it is some sort of external thing that is the catalyst. Drug, sickness, etc. Well, pon farr is not really external, but still an unusual condition. I mean there is usually some thing which somehow impedes their normal mental faculties, they just do not snap under stress.
But there was an external catalyst in ST'09 as well:

KIRK: So you're saying that I have to emotionally compromise you guys?
SPOCK-PRIME: Jim, I just lost my planet. I can tell you, I am emotionally compromised. What you must do is get me to show it.

And it isn't only a question of simple pressure or stress or grief there, either. Remember the toll that sensing four hundred Vulcans die took on Spock in "The Immunity Syndrome" (TOS)? Well, multiply that by a factor of fifteen million.

It really must be something way more extensive than just bottling up their emotions. Vulcans often have hard time understanding emotions, if they constantly felt those same emotions that would not be the case.
A hard time understanding emotions, or a hard time understanding their expression in humans and other species?

"Emotions run deep in our people, far deeper than humans..." Sarek to his son, Star Trek '09.
And long before that...

"The Naked Time" (TOS):
CHAPEL: I know how you feel. You hide it, but you do have feeling. Oh, how we must hurt you, torture you.
SPOCK: I'm in control of my emotions.
CHAPEL: The others believe that. I don't.

"This Side Of Paradise" (TOS):
SPOCK: Emotions are alien to me. I'm a scientist.
KALOMI: Someone else might believe that. Your shipmates, your Captain, but not me.

"Is There In Truth No Beauty" (TOS):
JONES: Vulcan was necessary to my sanity.
SPOCK: What most humans generally find impossible to understand is the need to shut out the bedlam of other people's thoughts and emotions.
JONES: Or of their own thoughts and emotions.

"Yesteryear" (TAS):
SAREK: Spock, being Vulcan means following disciplines and philosophies that are difficult and demanding of both mind and body.
YOUNG SPOCK: Yes, father.
SAREK: You constantly display your emotions. You have even been seen fighting in the street.
YOUNG SPOCK: Yes, father.
SAREK: The time draws near when you will have to decide whether you will follow Vulcan or human philosophy. Vulcan offers much. No war, no crime. Order, logic and control in place of raw emotions and instinct. Once on the path you choose, you cannot turn back.
[...]
SPOCK: I suspected you would go. You are worried about the kahs-wan ordeal.
YOUNG SPOCK: I had to see if I could do it. A personal test. I cannot fail.
SPOCK: That is your father's wish?
YOUNG SPOCK: Yes, and my mother's. They...they confuse me. Father wants me to do things his way, and Mother says I should. But then she goes...
SPOCK: She is a human woman, with strong emotion and sensitivities. She embarrasses you with those traits, and you are afraid when you see them in yourself.
YOUNG SPOCK: How did you know?
SPOCK: There is some human blood in my family line. It is not fatal. What you do not yet understand, Spock, is that Vulcans do not lack emotion. It is only that ours is controlled. Logic offers a serenity humans seldom experience in full. We have emotions but we deal with them and do not let them control us.

"Sarek" (TNG):
TROI: Well, Vulcans have the same basic emotions we do. They've just learned to repress them.
[...]
SAREK: Vulcan emotions are extremely intense. We have learned to suppress them. No human would be able to control them. They would overwhelm you.

"Gravity" (VGR):
YOUNG TUVOK: If I was meant to deny feelings, why was I born with them? Where's the logic in that?
VULCAN MASTER: Hidden for you to find. Or in plain sight for you to ignore.
YOUNG TUVOK: You speak in riddles because the truth frightens you.
VULCAN MASTER: You're right, it does frighten me. You are surprised to hear a Vulcan master admit to having emotions?
YOUNG TUVOK: Yes.
VULCAN MASTER: Emotions can be a powerful tool. To deny their existence is illogical. But you must learn to control them.
[...]
I'm trying to help you to understand. Shon-ha'lock, love, is the most dangerous emotion of all. It produces many other emotions. Jealousy, shame, rage, grief. You must learn to suppress them all. Otherwise, they will consume you. I can sense emotions building inside you like a gathering storm. If we begin now, we may be able to stop them.
[...]
TUVOK: When I was a young man, I experienced an emotional attraction toward a woman. It nearly destroyed me.
PARIS: Your wife?
TUVOK: No. Her name was Jara, a Terrelian female. I would have violated every tenet of Vulcan philosophy simply to be near her.
PARIS: She must have really been something.
TUVOK: I lost all sense of who I was. The emotional attraction I felt for her became a kind of insanity.
PARIS: Tuvok, everyone feels a little insane when they fall in love, but it's worth the risk.
TUVOK: For you, perhaps. But I am Vulcan. My natural emotions are erratic, volatile. If I don't control them, they will control me.

"Riddles" (VGR):
NEELIX: Well, you won't call it fun. You'll call it deriving satisfaction. But it's basically the same thing. You'll still experience emotions.
TUVOK: But I won't express them.

"Repression" (VGR):
TEERO: [to Tuvok] I'm a student of the mind. Yours is remarkable. Disciplined, orderly. On the surface, that is. Beneath...boiling emotions, repressed violence.

"Impulse" (ENT):

HAWKINS: May I ask you a question? How is it possible that this crew could turn so violent, when Vulcans aren't supposed to have emotions?
T'POL: A common misconception. We have emotions. We simply keep them suppressed, under control.

"Twilight" (ENT):
PHLOX: Vulcans experience the same emotions as any other species. They're simply better at hiding them.

(There's probably more that I missed, too.)

-MMoM:D
 
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I guess it boils down what 'suppressing an emotion' means. If you have suppressed an emotion are you still really feeling it?

But still, Vulcans having some super special strong emotions cannot be true. We have seen logicless Vulcans and plenty of Romulans, and they do not seem any more emotional than humans.
 
I guess it boils down what 'suppressing an emotion' means. If you have suppressed an emotion are you still really feeling it?
You may not be feeling it at that moment, but it is still there. And if the suppression is not constantly and rigorously maintained, then it will surface. It's an active, ongoing process from hour to hour, day by day, year after year. One of the key things we know they need to be able to do in order to keep it up is meditate in isolation regularly.
 
You may not be feeling it at that moment, but it is still there. And if the suppression is not constantly and rigorously maintained, then it will surface. It's an active, ongoing process from hour to hour, day by day, year after year. One of the key things we know they need to be able to do in order to keep it up is meditate in isolation regularly.
Yeah, sure, I guess I agree.
 
The positive side of Vulcan training and discipline: Spock can keep his cool even in the most stressful situations, no matter what he may be feeling inside.

The negative side: he lives in a "self-imposed purgatory" that cuts him off from happiness and makes connecting with others difficult. There's a serious price to be paid for all that emotional repression, as he finally realizes in TMP.
 
You may not be feeling it at that moment, but it is still there. And if the suppression is not constantly and rigorously maintained, then it will surface. It's an active, ongoing process from hour to hour, day by day, year after year. One of the key things we know they need to be able to do in order to keep it up is meditate in isolation regularly.
In addition, the larger themes of Vulcans are really espoused by the antithesis in the Romulans. The Romulans pursued their passions and desires and eventually formed a rigid society to express those. It is a sublimation of those passions in to a new target.

Finally, ST 09 sets up the larger theme in the film itself in one of my favorite soliloquies by Sarek:
Uk0nTKs.jpg


As this article is a great one regarding the psychology of Spock and why he endures as a character.
 
I think they have cast Spock. I wouldn’t be surprised it’ll be Leonard Nimoy’s face on a stand-in with a great voice actor doing the part. Why not? They’ve said they won’t recast the part. But they also say Spock’s already been cast. Marvel and Blade Runner 2049 prove this can be done quite well. On a TV budget it may not look the best. But I wouldn’t put it past them. (Saying all of this, of course it’ll be a minimal role.)
 
But still, Vulcans having some super special strong emotions cannot be true. We have seen logicless Vulcans and plenty of Romulans, and they do not seem any more emotional than humans.
Well, an element in play may be that the suppression itself concentrates and intensifies the underlying emotions, because they are allowed no outlet. Bones theorized as much with respect to pon farr...

"Amok Time" (TOS):

MCCOY:
And they still go mad at this time. Perhaps the price they pay for having no emotions the rest of the time.

As for those so-called "logicless Vulcans"...

"Fusion" (ENT):

TAVIN: "Vulcans without logic." It's a name the Elders give to anyone who disagrees with the ancestral teachings, but it's not entirely accurate. We haven't abandoned logic. We've simply learned to exist without the need to continually repress our emotions. It's taken years of experimentation, but we've managed to find a balance between the two.
T'POL: That's not possible.
TOLARIS: Here we are.
TAVIN: Logic is an essential part of Vulcan existence, but it has to complement emotions, not exclude them.
[...]
ARCHER: It seems to me like you've been busy avoiding them. I can understand that you might not approve of what they're trying to do, but for all we know they're onto something.
T'POL: That's unlikely.
ARCHER: Is it? Eight years. That's a pretty good track record.
T'POL: Just because they smile and eat chicken doesn't mean they've learned to master their emotions.
ARCHER: Maybe I'm just relieved to finally meet some Vulcans who aren't giving me a hard time. Then again, if they have found this balance...
T'POL: They're not the first ones to attempt this, Captain. Others have tried to re-integrate their emotions. They all failed. What they're doing is dangerous.
[...]
TOLARIS: Your emotions are much closer to the surface than other Vulcans. They're easier to read.
T'POL: I have yet to meditate this evening. Perhaps that's what you're sensing.
TOLARIS: This may surprise you, but we still meditate. The balance between emotion and logic requires constant discipline.
T'POL: So you've said. You and your colleagues have chosen a reckless path.
TOLARIS: Have we?
T'POL: History's shown that Vulcans who attempt to embrace their emotions often revert to their primal nature.
TOLARIS: That's a myth. Propaganda from five thousand years ago. Our primal nature, T'Pol, is not as dangerous as you think.
[...]
T'POL: It's curious that people who reject Surak's teachings would display his likeness.
TOLARIS: We don't reject his teachings. We simply disagree with how they're interpreted. Have you read his original text? He never intended for us to purge our emotions. He wanted us to master them, and then carefully integrate them into our lives.
T'POL: I doubt many would agree with you.
TOLARIS: That doesn't mean we're wrong.

(And then he raped her. Of course, it's not as if the others were all that bad. But they were playing with fire, is the point.)

A bit more on that "primal nature" and the process of suppressing it...

"All Our Yesterdays" (TOS):

MCCOY: Are you trying to kill me, Spock? Is that what you really want? Think. What are you feeling? Rage? Jealousy? Have you ever had those feelings before?
SPOCK: This is impossible. Impossible. I am a Vulcan.
MCCOY: The Vulcan you knew won't exist for another five thousand years. Think, man. What's happening on your planet right now, this very moment?
SPOCK: My ancestors are barbarians. Warlike barbarians.
MCCOY: Who nearly killed themselves off with their own passions.
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier:

SYBOK:
My Vulcan ancestors were ruled by their emotions. They felt with their hearts. They made love with their hearts. They believed with their hearts.
"Shockwave, Part II" (ENT):

T'POL: The concept of learning from one's mistakes shouldn't be difficult for a Vulcan of your wisdom to understand, Ambassador. Our ancestors discovered how to suppress their volatile emotions only after centuries of savage conflict.
"Meld" (VGR):

DOCTOR:
First we have to take away his ability to control his violence. We do this in short bursts over a period of time and hope it provides a shock to his system. If it works, his own neural controls will take over again. I believe we're about ready. Revive him.
TUVOK: Something has changed.
DOCTOR: We've temporarily removed all of your emotional suppression abilities, Lieutenant. How do you feel?
TUVOK: I feel.
JANEWAY: Tuvok, do you know where you are?
TUVOK: [laughing] Of course I know where I am, Captain. I'm just not sure I know who I am.
DOCTOR: Try to relax. The treatment still has about three minutes to go.
TUVOK: Oh, it must be working, because I feel very strong. Very powerful. Quite euphoric. This must be how my ancestors felt. Doctor, would you consider allowing me to remain this way for a while? It would be a valuable opportunity for me to study primal Vulcan behavior.
DOCTOR: Sorry, I'm not prepared to do that. The course of treatment is very specific.
TUVOK: You are not invulnerable, hologram! A few well chosen commands to the computer and you will cease to exist! [throws wheelchair against forcefield]
"Innocence" (VGR):

TUVOK: Vulcan children learn to detach themselves from their emotions at an early age.
ELANI: How?
TUVOK: First, you must focus on the object of your fear. Picture the Morrok clearly in your minds. That image is accompanied by an emotional response. Describe for me what that feeling is like.
TRESSA: It makes my stomach all tight.
ELANI: I feel like I want to run, but my legs won't work.
TUVOK: Now, if you could see this emotion in physical form, what would it look like?
CORIN: It's like this big, black cloud with lots of thunder and lightning all around us.
TUVOK: Then imagine a strong wind is pushing that cloud away. Watch as your fear grows more distant. It is no longer a part of you. Once you begin to detach yourselves from your emotional responses, you come closer to controlling them. Eventually, they will be eliminated altogether.
ELANI: Do you live your whole life without feeling anything?
TUVOK: More accurately, we strive to control our feelings.

Now, those last two do rather make it sound like once these patterns of thinking and behavior have been well-established and long-sustained that they indeed take on some degree of self-regulation, in the absence of impairment, which makes sense given the principle of neuroplasticity. (Repetitive actions and other stimuli can over time physically alter and restructure human neural pathways as well, in real life.)

Regarding the volatility of Romulans...

"Balance Of Terror" (TOS):


SPOCK:
And if Romulans are an offshoot of my Vulcan blood, and I think this likely, then attack becomes even more imperative.
MCCOY: War is never imperative, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: It is for them, Doctor. Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period. Savage, even by Earth standards. And if Romulans retain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show.
"The Enterprise Incident" (TOS):

ROMULAN COMMANDER:
Romulan women are not like Vulcan females. We are not dedicated to pure logic and the sterility of non-emotion. Our people are warriors, often savage. But we are also many other pleasant things.
"The Neutral Zone" (TNG):

TROI:
As you know, there is very little available on the Romulans.
PICARD: Counselor, anything would be helpful.
TROI: They seem to be creatures of extremes. One moment violent beyond description, the next tender.

But I will certainly grant you that such statements might equally be made of humans!

"The Forge" (ENT):


SOVAL:
We don't know what to do about humans. Of all the species we've made contact with, yours is the only one we can't define. You have the arrogance of Andorians, the stubborn pride of Tellarites. One moment, you're as driven by your emotions as Klingons, and the next, you confound us by suddenly embracing logic.
FORREST: I'm sure those qualities are found in every species.
SOVAL: Not in such confusing abundance.
FORREST: Ambassador, are Vulcans afraid of humans? Why?
SOVAL: Because there is one species you remind us of.
FORREST: Vulcans.
SOVAL: We had our wars, Admiral, just as humans did. Our planet was devastated, our civilisation nearly destroyed. Logic saved us. But it took almost fifteen hundred years for us to rebuild our world and travel to the stars. You humans did the same in less than a century. There are those on the High Command who wonder what humans would achieve in the century to come, and they don't like the answer.

I see it less as a matter of not understanding than one of understanding all too well. Surak certainly understood. Or at least, Spock must believe He would...

"The Savage Curtain" (TOS):

SURAK:
The image of Surak read in your face what is in your mind, Spock.
SPOCK: As I turned and my eyes beheld you, I displayed emotion. I beg forgiveness.
SURAK: The cause was more than sufficient.

Note that I'm not suggesting it's impossible to overplay the "Spock gets emotional or is otherwise out of sorts" card, but it is a well-established element of his character, and has often served as an effective shorthand for "something must be up here." It has always seemed to me that "The Naked Time" provides one of the single best glimpses of who Spock "really" is (or was then) beneath his aloof exterior. As with everyone in that episode, he may be "under the influence," but that influence isn't actually imposing those feelings on him. It is merely revealing them by reducing his inhibitions and carefully-cultivated defenses. That's the "true" Spock we're seeing there, as much as we are at any other time during TOS.

(Sorry to belabor this. Carry on.)

-MMoM:D
 
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As diverse as any other race in Star Trek?

Just because televised Star Trek is paper-thin where details are concerned, doesn't mean we should turn off our brains. There are lots of great novels and comics that explore the societies that we only briefly glimpse on TV in much greater detail.
 
I for one would like to see Spock with Leonard Nimoy's face edited onto it! Similar to how Peter Cushing's Grand Moff Tarkin appeared in Rogue One last year!
JB
 
I for one would like to see Spock with Leonard Nimoy's face edited onto it! Similar to how Peter Cushing's Grand Moff Tarkin appeared in Rogue One last year!
JB
Why are you always yelling!

Also Tarkin’s head in rogue one was completely 3D CGI overlayed on another actor, not a 2d face edited onto someone else’s.

Discovery does not have the budget to do that.
 
I'm not yelling! I've been a fan of comic books for years and love how they put an exclamation mark at the end of every sentence! Well that or it's better than a full stop. 3D or 2D layed onto another actor either way but if it ain't Nimoy then it ain't TOS reality!!
JB
 
You must have hated it when they recast Saavik, throwing your whole world view into chaos.

No, not really as they were not trying to be something that they're not! It was a film which followed another film and not a television series that keeps telling us that it's set in the same universe as the original show but ten years earlier despite looking far too sophisticated and bringing up events that either never happened or happened much, much later than what they are saying!
JB
 
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