Spidey OUT of MCU

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Flying Spaghetti Monster, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    I don't line up for a superhero movie because it's art. I line up because it's--hopefully--a good time.
    Beyond the technical aspect of CGI and green screen technology, they aren't exactly pushing the art form of cinematic story telling forward.

    That assumes that his goal IS to make a movie that makes 2 billion dollars. Which, I doubt is true.

    However, what he has accomplished is more staggering than making 2 billions dollars at the box office. He's created some legendary movies (Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, for example) that have influenced countless artists. His films will be continued to be studied and watched. And fuck, he's someone whose opinion on something is headline news... The Russo Brothers can barely open a movie that doesn't have Marvel attached.

    The guy, regardless of your personal opinion, is a legendary filmmaker.
     
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  2. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's never been Scorsese's desire or issue, and not all filmmakers are coveting blockbuster numbers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not being sarcastic. You're ascribing a status to something labelled "art" which is not inherent to the name.

    We agree then. ;)

    It's not a cop-out...in my opinion, "this is art but this is not" is just elitist bullshit, and is as subjective as anything else. If there's a film that I consider to be art and you do not, who gets to decide what is true?

    Found objects. How is putting a bicycle wheel on a podium art, but hundreds of people pouring all their creative drives into one film not? Or a big canvas completely covered in red paint...some art critics would opine that it's brilliant, but other people would just wonder what the hell the point is. Are the critics full of it or are the non-critics just idiots? I'd argue that it's neither. It's all art, and it's up to the individual to decide if they like it.

    As my position is "It's up to the individual" I won't argue further, and apologize if I was too argumentative for polite company. :)
     
  4. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  5. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Film as high art is for those who appreciate film as high art; mostly those who make films and wish to be highly regarded as artists.

    The rest of us really just want to be entertained.
     
  6. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Is it a problem if someone doesn't think Bugs Bunny isn't funny?

    I don't get why everyone is so up in arms about Scorsese's comments. So he doesn't like your movies, what's the big deal?

    He's not saying they shouldn't be made. He's not interested in seeing them.
     
  7. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Some reporter's editor decided it was newsworthy.

    Other than that, it's just an offhand comment by an old dude who did some stuff.

    :techman:
     
  8. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They're hardly up in arms. Both of their responses seemed pretty mild to me.
     
  9. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Have you been reading this thread?
     
  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You quoted the Sam Jackson article and said "he (Scorsese) doesn't like your movies". You'll have to forgive me for thinking you meant the filmmakers who have responded to his statement.
     
  11. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For a long time, of course, the very idea that any films would ever be considered "high art" was ludicrous.
     
  12. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's a good thing that, at the least, Feige will get to/have to resolve the cliffhanger he released and the resolution won't be dismissed just because he isn't involved.
     
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  13. Unaired Kai "the spy" TV Pilot

    Unaired Kai "the spy" TV Pilot Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, if you wanna talk about the filmmakers' response, while he did appear more sad than angry, James Gunn apparently thought Scorsese "dismissed (his) films unseen", when Scorsese clearly said that he gave the MCU movies a try. It seems even celebrities fall prey to clickbait headlines.
     
  14. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

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    The GoTG movies are cute, funny fluff. Very enjoyable, but trivial.
     
  15. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Just like your posts in MCU threads. :p
     
  16. That's So Bane

    That's So Bane Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Saying he 'tried' does not mean he watched a single one of Gunn's films at all. It doesn't necessarily even mean he really watched any of them at all. It could mean he watched the first five minutes of Iron Man and gave up, we really don't know. The only thing we can say with reasonable certainty based on his comments is that he clearly stopped trying some time ago, so his opinion of every mcu movie since then is based on his judgement of some unspecified completely different movie that came out years before. He is literally dismissing them unseen. That's not clickbait.
     
  17. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    People keep ignoring the fact that the problem isn't that he doesn't like the films, the problem is that he said they "aren't cinema". Every damn film is "cinema". Iron Man, The Avengers, Spider-Man, hell even batman v Superman are just as much "cinema" as Tazi Driver or shit like Shutter Island. I don't care if an out of touch, overrated septuagenarian director doesn't like Marvel films, the fact that he's acting like he has the authority to declare movies "cinema" or, as is pretty much implied, "real films" is the part that makes him an asshole.

    The Scorsese stuff I've stomached has been boring, glacial shit, but they're still real movies/"cinema". So is every damn movie. He's acting like a lot of old people who work in many mediums do, declaring stuff that came after them to not be "real" because it doesn't meet some bullshit standard they invented in their head. Some Rockers don't consider rap music to be real music, old reporters didn't like the internet, radio people (and movie people) didn't like television when it came along, people like Spielberg whined and complained about VHS, it goes on and on.

    TLDR: It doesn't matter that Scorsese doesn't like the MCU, the problem is him acting like they are any less "real" then his films, or that he has any authority to declare what is and isn't "real cinema".
     
  18. Unaired Kai "the spy" TV Pilot

    Unaired Kai "the spy" TV Pilot Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You break down his words in a nitpicky way, but you jump to conclusions yourself. Yes, he said "he tried", which doesn't mean he watched some of them. But then, what else would it mean? Seriously, what is the alternative you propose?
    And my point was, he said he tried, meaning he watched some of them. He didn't specify which ones he watched, so GotG might actually be among those he watched, therefore Gunn can't just say Scorsese dismissed his movies unseen, because he doesn't know
    Furthermore, Scorsese might have seen other films of Gunn, he might have seen Super, or Slither, he might have even liked them, but they were not what was talked about. The topic were the MCU movies, which all have a similar house-style, even Gunn's, so even if Scorsese didn't see GotG, it is not unreasonable to dismiss these movies for himself. I mean, if you watched Toho's King Kong vs. Godzilla and Mothra, and decided that you didn't like them, would you bother watching Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster?

    For fuck's sake, if anybody should understand using absolute terminology to express their own personal opinion, it should be you. When he says "they aren't cinema", it follows that he has a personal definition of "cinema" that goes beyond the objective one, because on objective terms, any moving pictures projected onto a screen is cinema. So, what he's saying is that there are things that attract him to cinema, and that the MCU movies don't offer him that.
     
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  19. Yossarianator

    Yossarianator Commodore Commodore

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    We should all be so out of touch. Scorsese characters can and often are holes of that type, but the man is anything but a hole. Just play his reactions when he won his directing Oscar for the DEPARTED. That being said, your first sentence is correct. Since art wasn't mentioned.
     
  20. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He was saying that, to him, they weren't "real movies", which is bullshit. You can't just declare movies you don't like to be less "real" then the ones you do (or, in his case, the ones he makes). Again, shit like Taxi Driver is no more or less "cinema" then Guardians of the Galaxy is. He doesn't have to like them, but he was being an absolute prick, just like several other shitty old Hollywood people (James Cameron being another big example, although Scorsese isn't a huge hypocrite like cameron is).

    If he wasn't an asshole, he would have said "I don't like them". Instead, he said "I don't consider them to be real films", and that is not an "opinion". I can't say that the Twilight books aren't novels, because it is an objective fact that they are. In the same way, he has no right or authority to claim any movie isn't cinema, or that shit he likes is intrinsically better then Marvel films.

    In the end, it doesn't matter that much. he's an obsolete fossil who makes mediocre film snob bait movies, but its how big of a prick he's being that pisses me off, along with how dismissive he's being of the people that worked on those movies and the people that love them by treating them as lesser then the boring shit he makes.