So is Capt Shaw the new, reigning biggest a##hole in Trek?

[fireproof78]

Oh, I have no issues with Shaw.

I find it fascinating that he is written as a 21st century character but is acceptable as a 24th century captain. Fascinating insights in to the audience.

 

[XCV330]

Oh, I have no issues with Shaw.

I find it fascinating that he is written as a 21st century character but is acceptable as a 24th century captain. Fascinating insights in to the audience.

The guy references play dough. Anyway, I think we can throw out improved human beings by this point in Trek's development. People in PIC are more screwed up than hardly anyone I know IRL. I feel like they wanted this season to be DS9 dialed up to 11 and they just did not understand why that does not work.

 

[fireproof78]

The guy references play dough.

And? I reference it daily. But that comes from working with kids.

People in PIC are more screwed up than hardly anyone I know IRL.

I would not recommend working in mental health or having adopted family members, or knowing friends with trauma...

Wow, I really drew an interesting lot.

I feel like they wanted this season to be DS9 dialed up to 11 and they just did not understand why that does not work.

Curious. How so?

 

[XCV330]

And? I reference it daily. But that comes from working with kids.

I would not recommend working in mental health or having adopted family members, or knowing friends with trauma...

Wow, I really drew an interesting lot.

Curious. How so?

Ds9 worked for a lot of reasons. It had a lot of time to do what it did, it had, frankly, much better writers, and the large arcs they were trying out were relatively new to Star Trek. PIC is a nostalgia show. They're not pretending to bring anything new to viewers. This is just a last hurrah and to do so they're dipping from the last well left untapped, DS9.

 

[fireproof78]

Ds9 worked for a lot of reasons. It had a lot of time to do what it did, it had, frankly, much better writers, and the large arcs they were trying out were relatively new to Star Trek. PIC is a nostalgia show. They're not pretending to bring anything new to viewers. This is just a last hurrah and to do so they're dipping from the last well left untapped, DS9.

Fascinating. I don't agree whatsoever but I am so eminently fascinated by your opinion that I do hope you continue to share it

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You might not like Shaw, but you probably stand a better chance of staying alive on a ship with a captain like Shaw. He might not like you but he'll probably be fair on your evals as its easier to be fair than to go through the effort of fucking you over. You might not like him but he won't require any social interaction with you and will be willing to delegate his job duties the way he ought to.

Shaw doesn't hate everybody. We see him through the lens of his interactions with Picard and the rest of them, but that's a skewed viewpoint. I'm sure he has friends just like everyone else. And we never see him interact with his own crew except when it's Seven, so we don't know how he treats his subordinates (though I'm sure he's fair with them).

Shaw actually strikes me as somebody who, if he likes you, he'll have your back no matter what. The perfect drinking buddy. He wouldn't be the kind of friend who'd bail you out of jail - he'd be sitting right there in the cell next to you, going "She didn't look like no cop, did she?"

And again, the whole reason Shaw was an asshole in the first place is because Picard and Riker LIED to him. If they had been straight with him, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Shaw definitely does not like being lied to, and I can't say I blame him.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Wrong. Shaw was an asshole to Picard right off the bat. "Your reputation proceeded you so far into the room that I started without you". That was unspeakably rude in either a personal or professional setting.

 

[Supervisor 194]

Thought experiment: what if the ONLY time we saw Capt. Kirk was in the TOS episode "Obsession"? How would viewers respond to him?

 

[Yistaan]

Shaw doesn't hate everybody. We see him through the lens of his interactions with Picard and the rest of them, but that's a skewed viewpoint.

Vadic indicates there's something objectively wrong with Shaw and cited his personnel file though...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Wrong. Shaw was an asshole to Picard right off the bat. "Your reputation proceeded you so far into the room that I started without you". That was unspeakably rude in either a personal or professional setting.

Rude? Perhaps. But Picard deserved it.

Vadic indicates there's something objectively wrong with Shaw and cited his personnel file though...

She was probably just talking about his trauma from Wolf 359.

 

[vulcancicada]

I love Shaw. I think the behaviour is perfect. Sisko was super rude to Picard when he first met him too. Perhaps it reveals something about me, but I appreciate when shows give trauma its due. I am sick of seeing characters not affected by the horrible things they experience. The development of Sisko from that place of pain losing Jennifer is one of the things that made DS9 so compelling as a show.

 

[fireproof78]

While I agree about trauma, unfortunately Trek has a long way to go in showing it accurately. Even reactions to Shaw are quite telling.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Sisko was super rude to Picard when he first met him too.

Not in the way that Shaw was. Sisko balanced the line of projecting his personal contempt for Picard while acting strictly professional toward him as a superior officer.

 

[vulcancicada]

While I agree about trauma, unfortunately Trek has a long way to go in showing it accurately. Even reactions to Shaw are quite telling.

Absolutely agree. I think every tv show and a lot of films have a long way to go in showing it accurately.

 

[fireproof78]

Not in the way that Shaw was. Sisko balanced the line of projecting his personal contempt for Picard while acting strictly professional toward him as a superior officer.

Picard is not his direct superior, nor technically in Starfleet. Picard and Riker have come aboard his ship under false pretenses.

What courtesy is owed?

 

[vulcancicada]

Not in the way that Shaw was. Sisko balanced the line of projecting his personal contempt for Picard while acting strictly professional toward him as a superior officer.

I guess Shaw is just more reflective of more modern writing / style of writing for streaming than network tv. I have no problem with him being rude to Picard and I think Picard seems to understand.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Picard is not his direct superior, nor technically in Starfleet. Picard and Riker have come aboard his ship under false pretenses.

What courtesy is owed?

He can put on his adult pants and act like a professional.

 

[fireproof78]

He can put on his adult pants and act like a professional.

He can.

There's no requirement.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Shaw has been more of a professional to Riker and Picard than they deserve.

#TeamDipshit

 

[The Old Mixer]

He can.

There's no requirement.

Where did I say that there was? I was noting how Sisko's attitude toward Picard differed from Shaw's. Sisko acted professional. Shaw didn't.