So how important is canon, then?

[fireproof78]

You just change your requirements for evidence you’ll accept any time you’re presented with any. But keep going, this is fun.

I've been enjoying my popcorn here. It's rather entertaining given the constant goal post shifting.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the matter, obviously everyone interprets things differently. From my perspective, it is very clear Spock and Vulcans are very capable of having casual sex. Sometimes you have to read the text beyond the dialogue presented, you have to look at the scenes and how they are presented.

And understand the context in which time it was made. TOS was made in a time were hinting at casual sex would not fly with the censors. And, yet, they were able to work in an implied sexual encounter between Kirk and the leader on the planet in "Wink of an Eye." Yes, it was intentional, yes the writers and actors knew what it meant, but it wasn't stated on screen they had sex. So, by the arguments presented in this thread they did not have sex.

Figure that one out...

 

[Orphalesion]

No one poops in Star Trek, therefore poop does not exist

I thought they poop in the corner and then have it beamed into space?

Maybe Lower Decks will finally give us a canonical answer to the poop mystery

 

[NCC-73515]

You just change your requirements for evidence you’ll accept any time you’re presented with any. But keep going, this is fun.

I've been enjoying my popcorn here. It's rather entertaining given the constant goal post shifting.

again, where did i do that?

Let's just say that in the times of old, slipping into something more comfortable is a code for eventual knocking of boots. Which the Romulan Commander did. Now, are you saying that with all she knew about Spock and Vulcans (shown in the episode), she didn't realize her sexual advances would be rebuffed? The episode was written by Dorothy Fontana.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the matter, obviously everyone interprets things differently. From my perspective, it is very clear Spock and Vulcans are very capable of having casual sex. Sometimes you have to read the text beyond the dialogue presented, you have to look at the scenes and how they are presented.

If we go by straight, spelled out dialogue, Starfleet isn't the military and combat is a minor province of starship command. Spoken by Jean-Luc Picard in "Peak Performance". I think we all understand Starfleet is the military and have a preponderance of evidence to back it up without any dialogue needed.

she tried to seduce him, but her degree of success remains unknown.
yes, so is it about being capable but preferring not to versus being incapable? then that's the misunderstanding. if it is about being capable but preferring not to versus doing it whenever, i stand by what people said on the show.

And understand the context in which time it was made. TOS was made in a time were hinting at casual sex would not fly with the censors. And, yet, they were able to work in an implied sexual encounter between Kirk and the leader on the planet in "Wink of an Eye." Yes, it was intentional, yes the writers and actors knew what it meant, but it wasn't stated on screen they had sex. So, by the arguments presented in this thread they did not have sex.

Figure that one out...

here ya go:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/so-how-important-is-canon-then.305324/page-18#post-13503593

kirk did get dressed in a bed (for example) following a cut to suggest that. how do you decide who he had sex with and who he didn't screw?

 

[fireproof78]

I stand by authorial intent.

again, where did i do that?

With the appearance than inference of sex is not sufficient to prove interest in sex or capability. It has come across, to me, that there is a desire for direct literalism in the text and anything less than that is automatically suspect.

If that is the case then Kirk did not have sex.

 

[BillJ]

...if it is about being capable but preferring not to versus doing it whenever...

I miss things from time to time, but where has it ever been said or even indicated that Vulcans don't have casual sex? We know that they are driven to have sex every seven years due to a mating urge, but that doesn't mean that is the only time they have sexual interest. You're trying to apply an all-encompassing meaning to something that is about a specific time in a Vulcan's life.

 

[Morgan Primus]

again, where did i do that?


she tried to seduce him, but her degree of success remains unknown.
yes, so is it about being capable but preferring not to versus being incapable? then that's the misunderstanding. if it is about being capable but preferring not to versus doing it whenever, i stand by what people said on the show.


here ya go:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/so-how-important-is-canon-then.305324/page-18#post-13503593

I’m not going to play fetch for you.

 

[BillJ]

Three words: Vulcan Love Slave.

 

[NCC-73515]

With the appearance than inference of sex is not sufficient to prove interest in sex or capability. It has come across, to me, that there is a desire for direct literalism in the text and anything less than that is automatically suspect.

If that is the case then Kirk did not have sex.

let's take commander "my alien" riker and the malcorian nurse. everything they show strongly suggests they did it.
there is no such clear suggestion for vulcans doing it outside their cycle, unless it's caused by disruptions. the romulan seducing spock makes it clear that she wants him. but how far he went with her remains unknown. so saying that they absolutely did it is fanon. saying we don't know what happened is canon. looking at the rest of canon, they might not have gone all the way. logical or not? XD

I miss things from time to time, but where has it ever been said or even indicated that Vulcans don't have casual sex? We know that they are driven to have sex every seven years due to a mating urge, but that doesn't mean that is the only time they have sexual interest. You're trying to apply an all-encompassing meaning to something that is about a specific time in a Vulcan's life.

casual sex requires emotion and passion, doesn't it? is "mating" only reserved for reproductive sex, not casual sex? that would explain things.

I’m not going to play fetch for you.

so you cannot substantiate your accusation, as i expected.

 

[Orphalesion]

The only thing in relation to Pon Far I'm really curious about is whether it only appeared when the Vulcans started to follow the teaching of Surak, or whether it is from before that, which would mean that the Romulans (and Mintakans, and whatever other splinter groups the Romulans left behind in their migration) should have it as well.

 

[BillJ]

casual sex requires emotion and passion, doesn't it?

Not all the time. That seems to lead to another misunderstanding of Vulcans, they have all the emotions humans do, they do a better job of hiding them. The Spores on Omicron Ceti Three didn't create Spock's feelings towards Leila Kalomi, they merely brought those feelings to the surface.

SPOCK: I have little to say about it, Captain, except that for the first time in my life I was happy.

How could Spock say he was "happy" if he had no context for what happiness was?

 

[fireproof78]

let's take commander "my alien" riker and the malcorian nurse. everything they show strongly suggests they did it.
there is no such clear suggestion for vulcans doing it outside their cycle, unless it's caused by disruptions. the romulan seducing spock makes it clear that she wants him. but how far he went with her remains unknown. so saying that they absolutely did it is fanon. saying we don't know what happened is canon. looking at the rest of canon, they might not have gone all the way. logical or not? XD

Logical? Perhaps. Lacking in information to make a full conclusion? More accurate.

DROXINE: And is there nothing that can disturb that cycle, Mister Spock?
SPOCK: Extreme feminine beauty is always disturbing, madam.

Make of it what you will.

 

[Orphalesion]

l
casual sex requires emotion and passion, doesn't it?

The Vulcans have passions and emotions, they just control them.

 

[Morgan Primus]

let's take commander "my alien" riker and the malcorian nurse. everything they show strongly suggests they did it.
there is no such clear suggestion for vulcans doing it outside their cycle, unless it's caused by disruptions. the romulan seducing spock makes it clear that she wants him. but how far he went with her remains unknown. so saying that they absolutely did it is fanon. saying we don't know what happened is canon. looking at the rest of canon, they might not have gone all the way. logical or not? XD


casual sex requires emotion and passion, doesn't it? is "mating" only reserved for reproductive sex, not casual sex? that would explain things.


so you cannot substantiate your accusation, as i expected.

Don’t have to. Your comments are still here.


Prove Vulcans don’t have sex outside their 7 year cycles.

 

[NCC-73515]

Not all the time. That seems to lead to another misunderstanding of Vulcans, they have all the emotions humans do, they do a better job of hiding them. The Spores on Omicron Ceti Three didn't create Spock's feelings towards Leila Kalomi, they merely brought those feelings to the surface.

How could Spock say he was "happy" if he had no context for what happiness was?

why would anyone have casual sex in an unemotional, dispassionate state? it's clear that they suppress their emotions, still have them, but block them (except rebels like sybok of the fusion vulcans of course). the fusion guys actually suggest that they could do it all the time XD
but look at how tuvok could not do it with the gravity girl and she understood after he showed her how he suppressed his emotions.

Logical? Perhaps. Lacking in information to make a full conclusion? More accurate.

DROXINE: And is there nothing that can disturb that cycle, Mister Spock?
SPOCK: Extreme feminine beauty is always disturbing, madam.

Make of it what you will.

the very point i'm trying to make is highlighted.
him acknowledging that vulcans appreciate beauty was echoed by t'pol, but does that prove he screwed her? if i had sex with everyone i made a compliment, i would have way more than i actually have XD

The Vulcans have passions and emotions, they just control them.

exactly. they suppress them. so they're not expressed anymore.

Don’t have to. Your comments are still here.

Prove Vulcans don’t have sex outside their 7 year cycles.

so all my comments i made here are goalposting?

for the 3rd time:

EMH: Tuvok, I understand. You are a Vulcan man. You have just gone without for seven years about.
KOV: Vulcan males are driven to mate once every seven years.
T'POL: On Vulcan, we mate only once every seven years.
PARIS: Ah. This wouldn't be the kind of imbalance that comes around once every seven years?

hi ho, hi ho, and off to work i go... catch y'all later

 

[BillJ]

the fusion guys actually suggest that they could do it all the time

So you're saying that these guys could simply flip the switch on two-thousand years of evolution because they now say they have emotion? That represents even more damning evidence against the idea that Vulcans can only have sex every seven years.

 

[fireproof78]

the very point i'm trying to make is highlighted.

Yes, and I think these are erroneous or incomplete conclusions to make based upon given information. The idea that Vulcans choose not have sex except once every 7 years is rather strange, given that the whole inciting event of combat in "Amok Time" is that T'Pring wanted Stonn. If she just wanted his company then the marriage to Spock would be little more than an inconvenience. So, subtext suggests there is interest in more activity than just his company.

So you're saying that these guys could simply flip the switch on two-thousand years of evolution because they now say they have emotion? That represents even more damning evidence against the idea that Vulcans can only have sex every seven years.

I think we're fighting against strict literalism here.

 

[Morgan Primus]

If you don't like the show, then suddenly it's very important. If you do like it, then you'll look the other way.

Of course!

 

[The Wormhole]

I thought that was only temporary, or at least it was with Vorik.

Nope, when Tuvok did it in the seventh season, it worked permanently to fix his ponn farr. I guess they hadn't worked out all the bugs when they had Vorik do it.

 

[fireproof78]

Nope, when Tuvok did it in the seventh season, it worked permanently to fix his ponn farr. I guess they hadn't worked out all the bugs when they had Vorik do it.

Or maybe because of Torres' proximity the telepathic bond prevented efficacy?

 

[Nyotarules]

I am no scientist or statistician, but I suspect a planet would not have a population in the billions if they only had sex every 7 Earth years.