Well, they do live longer. But, yeah, the math probably doesn't add up.
So how important is canon, then?
- Thread starter Trekkie27
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Now all those human colonies that only seem to have twenty people living in the town, after many years, (Terra Nova, Masterpiece society, This side of paradise) they definitely only had sex every decade lol
When you're trying to survive on the frontier ain't nobody got time for that.
What does T’Pol’s trellium exposure and addiction have to do with anything?
You know where I’m going with this, don’t you?
Being the TOS fan that I am, I suppose I don't have much respect for Canon when "Star Trek" is now predominantly some form of distilled TNG. So already Star Trek has broken "canon" because it doesn't build on TOS, it built over it.
Some of this was okay, but as a viewer one of the problems I had with season 2 is how overboard and how bluntly they were offering corrections. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the Season 1 Klingons- I liked how overwhelmingly Alien they were, and I appreciated the terseness. Reverting to the TNG klingons was one of the greatest disappointments I have about Discovery, and the concession to move the show into the distant future to reflect the "obviously" advanced look over TOS turned off my interest in the show.
It's enough that Klingons as a warrior race are in the universe. I don't care if they're now tearse monster aliens over dudes with rubber foreheads. What I take exception to is demanding all Klingons need to conform to a specific vision... when that specific vision isn't the original vision, anyway.
Some of this was okay, but as a viewer one of the problems I had with season 2 is how overboard and how bluntly they were offering corrections. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the Season 1 Klingons- I liked how overwhelmingly Alien they were, and I appreciated the terseness. Reverting to the TNG klingons was one of the greatest disappointments I have about Discovery, and the concession to move the show into the distant future to reflect the "obviously" advanced look over TOS turned off my interest in the show.
It's enough that Klingons as a warrior race are in the universe. I don't care if they're now tearse monster aliens over dudes with rubber foreheads. What I take exception to is demanding all Klingons need to conform to a specific vision... when that specific vision isn't the original vision, anyway.
And what specific vision is that and why would I expect an intergalactic empire be monolithic?
I can't really argue with this. TOS is also my center of gravity. So I'm not broken up like others when they see Picard and think "What have they done to TNG?!" And I what I liked about DSC was that, at least in the first season, it looked like a Third Version of the Prime Timeline. In the second season, it was more "No! No! We're not Prime Timeline 3.0. We're really Prime Timeline 2.0. It all makes sense! See?" I still like the second season but I know full well what it was trying to do.
[EDIT: To use computer software terms: Let's say TOS was 1.0 and TNG was 2.0. In that case: the first season of DSC felt like it was Prime Timeline Version 3.0. In the second season, DSC felt more like it was Prime Timeline Version 2.1. If that makes sense.]
I don't have a problem with DSC's time-jump into The Future because as much as I like the show, I know it wants to be a Big Scale Show where Anything Can Happen and everything can be shaken up. You can't really do that if you have to put all the pieces back where they belong in time for TOS. So I actually think this will benefit the show.
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I would think that it would depend on how many years of that extra-long lifespan were child-bearing years. For example, a single couple producing a child every other pon farr would have five children if their fertile years spanned seven decades.
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edit to add: If 100 couples (200 Vulcans) began with this pattern and it continued over ten generations, 953,674 Vulcans would have been born.
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My assumption has always been that, since Vulcans are space monks, the vast majority of them actively refrain from sexual activity unless it's logical to do so (i.e. for procreation or blood fever reasons). Some die hard Syrannites and Kolinahr masters never have sex. Others, like Sarek (who married human women) have sex more often because their relationships required it. Hybrids like Spock (and Saavik?) have differing pressures and might overcompensate or undercompsensate as the need may be. V'tosh ka'tur and Sybok's followers have orgies.
And, per Voyager, as Vulcans age, their libido rises (possibly connected to a general loosening of emotional control as implied by some of Tuvok's and elder Spock's behavior), so elder Vulcans likely have sex more often to keep this libido in check. More die hard emotional control types might refrain still, although there may be a point where having sex is more beneficial to their overall control even if they lose it momentarily during the act of lovemaking.
And, per Voyager, as Vulcans age, their libido rises (possibly connected to a general loosening of emotional control as implied by some of Tuvok's and elder Spock's behavior), so elder Vulcans likely have sex more often to keep this libido in check. More die hard emotional control types might refrain still, although there may be a point where having sex is more beneficial to their overall control even if they lose it momentarily during the act of lovemaking.
Which is odd, because there is supposed to be a psychic component to it.
that's precisely what i wrote, minus the evolution part (which has nothing to do with emotional suppression) XD - thanks for agreeing once in a while
then why would your conclusion be any less erroneous or incomplete? what is so strange about it when they literally said that? or do y'all deny they said it? her or stonn's pon farr was coming up within the next few years, when spock would be away, as she mentioned at the end.
should vulcan statements be understood as generally untruthful, deceiving, misleading? they are very literal and if they say that their blood is green, their blood is very likely green. so we're fighting "blood is green cause that's said and shown" versus "green blood is fanon, it's actually blue". XD
if there's a logical reason, they could choose to reproduce (perhaps in vitro to keep their distance? XD). that's what prime spock probably meant when he said he wants to help repopulate their species
it obviously, clearly, caused her emotions to break through (as i mentioned) and made her explore her sexuality, as can be seen when you watch S3. i guess you're going for denying on-screen facts again...?
exactly. but that kind of logic is not understood here
perhaps it would help to know why you came to the conclusion that vast majority of them actively refrain from sexual activity. was it the statements vulcans made in the shows?
They should really all be immortal telekinetic super speedsters with force field belts by now...
What that that have to do with his biology?
fun/futile, potato/potahto...
NCC-73515 certainly will...
it obviously, clearly, caused her emotions to break through (as i mentioned) and made her explore her sexuality, as can be seen when you watch S3. i guess you're going for denying on-screen facts again...?
On screen facts? The statement from T’Pol can be interpreted any number of ways, but you have already implied that she’s an unreliable witness.
Why does she lead in with ‘On Vulcan,’? So they behave differently elsewhere? I know how you will choose to read it.
‘[On Vulcan,] ..mate only every seven years [however, I’m about to bang Trip]’ disqualifies her use of the intensifier only. Either they do, or they don’t have sex outside of the mating drive.
mate = sex for the purposes of procreation during their mating drive.
sex, intercourse, etc. = sexual intimacies engaged in at any time for number of reasons, to include pleasure
They generally don’t discuss having sex, Kirk had to drag the subject of Pon Far out of Spock in Amok Time, and he was suffering from its effects. I’m surprised T’Pol and the Vulcan male who commented before her even mentioned it, which have them appear to be written out of character, in my opinion.
Wake me up when you’ve established anything about Vulcans other than ‘we don’t know much about Vulcan sexual practises, other than every seven years they have the urge to mate to procreation’, as for Vulcans engaging in sexual intimacies outside of the urges of the mating drive, we will never know.
I’ve noticed that Vulcans are masters of speaking around certain subjects, and if one insists on finding a Vulcan admitting to an outworlder that they get laid occasionally, they will be disappointed.
(Despite Mr Spock having more or less admitting such already in The Cloud Minders.)
Learn to read what they’re NOT saying.
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This caused an amusing memory to resurface. I was watching TOS one day in my teens, and my cranky old grandfather happened to be sitting there. It may be the first time he saw it, and lord knows what episode it was. My grandfather was basically Archie Bunker, only not as lovable. He apparently found suspension of disbelief difficult, because at some random moment in the middle of the show, in his thick Bronx accent, he suddenly declared, "Dat dere, John, is what ya call yer imPOSSible!"
@Forbin
They’re notoriously tight-lipped about matters of intimacy (partially to discourage terrans like us from having discussions like this one, lol).
If they’re discussing it at all, it should be crucial to the plot or sub-plot somehow, or as a signifier of character development. Casually shooting the breeze about Vulcan sexuality in the break room or conference room with non-Vulcans especially - it just isn’t done.
It’s why I’m sort of glad TOS isn’t adding more to it’s established library. (I will not say that other word.) Less chance for future writers to swoop down and muddy up the waters trying to make it acceptable for new audiences. I thought Sybok was bad enough, I will re-evaluate that film one day.
Let the current and future crop of writers blow shit up and headcanon spastically over in a different timeline or universe, where it’s sandboxed.
They’re notoriously tight-lipped about matters of intimacy (partially to discourage terrans like us from having discussions like this one, lol).
If they’re discussing it at all, it should be crucial to the plot or sub-plot somehow, or as a signifier of character development. Casually shooting the breeze about Vulcan sexuality in the break room or conference room with non-Vulcans especially - it just isn’t done.
It’s why I’m sort of glad TOS isn’t adding more to it’s established library. (I will not say that other word.) Less chance for future writers to swoop down and muddy up the waters trying to make it acceptable for new audiences. I thought Sybok was bad enough, I will re-evaluate that film one day.
Let the current and future crop of writers blow shit up and headcanon spastically over in a different timeline or universe, where it’s sandboxed.
If one is married to the idea that Vulcans never have sex outside of Pon Farr, they should definitely steer clear of many of the novels over the years.
I'm reminded on the Ann Crispin novels, full of very sexual and very emotional Vulcans.
Not to mention Lt. Commander T'Prynn from the Star Trek: Vanguard novels.
@BillJ
It’s fun to speculate and argue about, lol.
Then you run up against people who don’t do subtlety, or subtext, or innuendo, or are utterly oblivious to the concept that characters either lie, or tell what they believe to be the truth at the time they said it, or they speak strictly for themselves, or the speaker falls back on cultural social conventions i.e. standard replies to standard questions.
It’s fun to speculate and argue about, lol.
Then you run up against people who don’t do subtlety, or subtext, or innuendo, or are utterly oblivious to the concept that characters either lie, or tell what they believe to be the truth at the time they said it, or they speak strictly for themselves, or the speaker falls back on cultural social conventions i.e. standard replies to standard questions.
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