So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoilers)

[captcalhoun]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

it's total bollocks. i don't have any truck with it.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

I believe that various hints have been dropped that the Doctor is destined to be a closed loop in time who forms a vital thread in the tapestry of the universe. He is a paradox with no beginning and no end - akin to the Ouroboros that the Corsair had tattooed onto his arm after each of his/her regenerations. My expectation is that the Doctor's final regeneration will lead back to the first Doctor (possibly via the Other and the Looms), link to the origin of the Time Lords, and conclude with the story of why he stole the Tardis. That's my expectation, which I wholly accept is likely to be proven wrong. I just like overarching grand designs in dramatic fiction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_(Doctor_Who)

I'm reminded of this line from "The Family of Blood" 2 parter

“He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever. He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe. And... he's wonderful. - Tim Latimer”

Referrences to the lonely god, all seem to be hinting that there is something Speical about the Doctor. Perhaps what will happen is that in order to maintain a balance the Universe itself won't let the Doctor Die.

Actually, I like how they did this without having to change the Doctor to make him more special. Instead, they elevated all the Time Lords so he could rise with them and then killed all the others off. The Time Lords are analogous to gods (their power in The War Games is something that shouldn't be demystified). He just happens to be the last one who can act and the only one known for acting.

In other words (since I don't think I'm good at explaining this), he could be pedestrian for a Time Lord (although probably more annoying) and a god to everyone else. And, since the Time Lords aren't here to judge him, that leaves him with god status.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

it's total bollocks. i don't have any truck with it.

I'm pretty sure it's not the way that Moffat will take the series - at least, any time soon and probably not at all during his remaining tenure. It sounds like he's currently steering back to smaller, self-contained stories. It would seem that many, if not most, people prefer those types of story over grandiose, messianic, multi-episode arcs.

 

[Tom]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

What the heck are these looms everyone keeps bringing up?

It's from part of the Cartmel Master Plan stuff. According to it, Gallifreyeans don't reproduce like we do; instead, they're formed as adults by "Looms" held by each of the major families on Gallifrey, woven together from the DNA of the rest of the family.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Loom

Which has been disproven showing the Master as an 8 year old boy etc..

 

[Guartho]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

I can remember waiting to be born... It was like being all strung out.

*snicker*

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

What the heck are these looms everyone keeps bringing up?

It's from part of the Cartmel Master Plan stuff. According to it, Gallifreyeans don't reproduce like we do; instead, they're formed as adults by "Looms" held by each of the major families on Gallifrey, woven together from the DNA of the rest of the family.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Loom

Which has been disproven showing the Master as an 8 year old boy etc..

Yeah, but I expect you could retcon that away like so many other things or just ignore it. In any case, I don't expect to see much if any Gallifreyan mythos explored further in the series.

 

[Starkers]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

I see what you did there.

Sometimes I like to needle people but don't worry, you won't get lost in my proverbial haystack.

Can we get this thread back on track please...

 

[Iamnotspock]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

I've been told one reason why Doctor Who isn't bigger in America is because the lead character is too "good", too much a hero.

This from the country that gave the world Superman?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

The Doctor's real name is James Howlett, sometimes the mystery is better.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

it's total bollocks. i don't have any truck with it.

I'm pretty sure it's not the way that Moffat will take the series - at least, any time soon and probably not at all during his remaining tenure. It sounds like he's currently steering back to smaller, self-contained stories. It would seem that many, if not most, people prefer those types of story over grandiose, messianic, multi-episode arcs.

I wouldn't mind the arc driven stuff, if the season was longer ala American seasons (20+ episodes). that would leave more time for standalones, like the way DS9 did it.

It's from part of the Cartmel Master Plan stuff. According to it, Gallifreyeans don't reproduce like we do; instead, they're formed as adults by "Looms" held by each of the major families on Gallifrey, woven together from the DNA of the rest of the family.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Loom

Which has been disproven showing the Master as an 8 year old boy etc..

Yeah, but I expect you could retcon that away like so many other things or just ignore it. In any case, I don't expect to see much if any Gallifreyan mythos explored further in the series.

The story did put it that the Doctor was the first natural born cousin since the early days (before the Loom) and if the Master is around the same age as the Doctor, it wouldn't really need a retcon.

 

[Sci]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

I've been told one reason why Doctor Who isn't bigger in America is because the lead character is too "good", too much a hero.

This from the country that gave the world Superman?

To be fair, Superman was created 73 years ago; it's questionable whether or not a character like Superman would be so popular if he were created today and had not had seven decades to become an icon of American popular culture.

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

it's total bollocks. i don't have any truck with it.

I'm pretty sure it's not the way that Moffat will take the series - at least, any time soon and probably not at all during his remaining tenure. It sounds like he's currently steering back to smaller, self-contained stories. It would seem that many, if not most, people prefer those types of story over grandiose, messianic, multi-episode arcs.

i meant the loom shit, more than the the cartmel masterplan.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

it's total bollocks. i don't have any truck with it.

I'm pretty sure it's not the way that Moffat will take the series - at least, any time soon and probably not at all during his remaining tenure. It sounds like he's currently steering back to smaller, self-contained stories. It would seem that many, if not most, people prefer those types of story over grandiose, messianic, multi-episode arcs.

i meant the loom shit, more than the the cartmel masterplan.

Ah, okay. I'm glad we've cleared that up. Any particular reason you don't like the idea of Looms? I guess that even if the Pythia had rendered the Time Lords sterile, it might have been easier to resort to cloning than to the Looms, which are presumably based on advanced nanotechnology. I envisage that a Loom would work something like the machinery that reconstituted Leeloo in The Fifth Element.

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

it just strikes me as being a really stupid idea.

and besides, 8 year old Master-child comepletely nukes it out of the water, so, YAY!

i'm not in love with the whole 'Other reborn' crap, either, but the Loom business seems even stupider than the DS9 novels 'Andorians have four genders' bollocks.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

I can't say I'm bothered either way. I find Lungbarrow fairly tedious and not particularly well written. I liked a few of the ideas but that's as far as it goes.

 

[Guartho]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

but the Loom business seems even stupider than the DS9 novels 'Andorians have four genders' bollocks.

I'm pretty sure it was a line from Data on TNG that established Andorians as having four genders.

 

[Photoman15]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

Please, no looms. Sounds ridiculous. That would mean that Liz 1 would still be ......
Time lords would have lost their reproductive organs (if they ever had any) over he millenia.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

but the Loom business seems even stupider than the DS9 novels 'Andorians have four genders' bollocks.

I'm pretty sure it was a line from Data on TNG that established Andorians as having four genders.

The line in Data's Day is that Andorians marry in complex groups of four. The DS9 novels interpreted this is Andorians possessing four genders, whih is logical enough since why else would they marry in groups of four?

Enterprise may have messed around with this a bit. We know Shran married an Aenar woman and they had a child. There was no referance to other spouses.

 

[Silent_Bob]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

but the Loom business seems even stupider than the DS9 novels 'Andorians have four genders' bollocks.

I'm pretty sure it was a line from Data on TNG that established Andorians as having four genders.

The line in Data's Day is that Andorians marry in complex groups of four. The DS9 novels interpreted this is Andorians possessing four genders, whih is logical enough since why else would they marry in groups of four?

It's not the first conclusion i would jump to, there could be any number of reasons why a marriage would consist of four individuals. Assuming it meant four genders is the same as an alien viewing a gay marriage concluding that humans only have a single gender.

As to the thread topic, i'd rather see the Cartmel masterplan be forgotten forever along with the looms. The Doctor has enough mystery and grandeur already without resorting to reincarnations of superbeings.

 

[Mr Silver]

Re: So, has Moffat brought back the Cartmel Master Plan? (6x13 Spoiler

They shouldn't reveal the Doctor's name. They can always have him mention that there is no translation for it and Humans cannot comprehend his native language. I think there does need to be a game changer that involves the Doctor's origins in order to make the show a bit more epic. The question "Doctor Who?" could refer to anything, but it's possible that it could mean that The Doctor isn't who he claims to be.

Take the first Doctor who had a grandchild - Susan Foreman. Let's assume that this "Doctor" was originally someone else and the Time Lord we've seen throughout the show assumed this "Doctor's" identity for whatever reason and has been living this man's identity for however many hundreds of years.

Something like that would be a pretty cool revelation. Assuming that the Time Lord was always a Time Lord and merely took on the identity of a Doctor in order to hide who he really is.