So far, do you think season 2 of Discovery is better than season 1?

[Spot261]

A book is not measured in any of those terms? You really think that the psychological effects, the size and shape of paragraphs and chapters, the ability to create a flow that affects readers impressions, to act on expectations? You really don't know much about writing it you think that text is all that matters. A mrer collection of sentences does not a great book make.

Maybe, maybe not, but I do know bits about human psychology. The point I'm making is that responses to a piece of art are very much individual and personal. They aren't statistically measurable in the sense that the behavioural or cognitive effects of a buildings' structure on the public are.

Nor do they rely necessarily on following a correct structure to be valid, as evidenced by quite a few absurdist and experimental disciplines, some of which do in fact employ entirely free form. Narrative structure tends to follow conventions for the sake of accessibility, much as the 3 minute format makes pop music accessible. More complex non linear and unconventional structures are used for a variety of purposes in terms of (for example) symbolism, exposition or reflecting the chaotic nature of human thought processes.

However there's no reason to presuppose those structures are indispensable, much as jazz or numerous experimental forms dispense with many musical conventions.

Therefore to claim there's some "correct" way to tell or interpret a story, available only to an elite few, is at the very least presumptuous, not to mention inaccurate.

 

[matthunter]

Well, you could google my name for starters.

Google doesn't seem to help, unless it's telling someone called Alan Cooper he's wrong about the return on investment for UX design. Or unless you work in HR?

 

[Alan Roi]

Maybe, maybe not, but I do know bits about human psychology. The point I'm making is that responses to a piece of art are very much individual and personal. They aren't statistically measurable in the sense that the behavioural or cognitive effects of a buildings' structure on the public are.

Nor do they rely necessarily on following a correct structure to be valid, as evidenced by quite a few absurdist and experimental disciplines, some of which do in fact employ entirely free form. Narrative structure tends to follow conventions for the sake of accessibility, much as the 3 minute format makes pop music accessible. More complex non linear and unconventional structures are used for a variety of purposes in terms of (for example) symbolism, exposition or reflecting the chaotic nature of human thought processes.

However there's no reason to presuppose those structures are indispensable, much as jazz or numerous experimental forms dispense with many musical conventions.

Therefore to claim there's some "correct" way to tell or interpret a story, available only to an elite few, is at the very least presumptuous, not to mention inaccurate.

Your post is certainly a great example into absurdist text, thank you for the demonstration and good humor.

And I will be sure to tell Sam Delany that his review of Dune which talks about how and what Herbert did with his ideas cannot be possibly any more insightful than what my 4 year old nephew Ricky thought of the narrative.

 

[Spot261]

Your post is certainly a great example into absurdist text, thank you for the demonstration and good humor.

And I will be sure to tell Sam Delany that his review of Dune which talks about how and what Herbert did with his ideas cannot be possibly any more insightful than what my 4 year old nephew Ricky thought of the narrative.

Shouldn't that be "a great example of"?

That being said, he fact you made this comment suggests you'd need the services of google to actually comment on absurdist writing, it doesn't mean the content is absurd (as you are implying).

So who said there's no difference in the level of insight between readers? All I said was there's no correct way to interpret a text and being a writer does not necessarily lend one authority. In fact that's all anyone has said to you, including at least one professional author (not that you'd have thought to ask).

They've all been correct too, funnily enough

Seems to me you're struggling to follow the flow here....

 

[Alan Roi]

Google doesn't seem to help, unless it's telling someone called Alan Cooper he's wrong about the return on investment for UX design. Or unless you work in HR?

www.thenewscifi.com

 

[tomalak301]

I like season 2 more but I wish they slowed down a little. I get it’s 14 episodes and they might not have time but I really do miss those character moments. Heck the scene with Suru and Burnham this last episode was the first really great character moment in the show.

Season 1 was pretty good on a rewatch but they dropped the ball in how it ended. That really hurt the overall season in my opinion.

 

[Alan Roi]

Shouldn't that be "a great example of"?

That being said, he fact you made this comment suggests you'd need the services of google to actually comment on absurdist writing, it doesn't mean the content is absurd (as you are implying).

So who said there's no difference in the level of insight between readers? All I said was there's no correct way to interpret a text and being a writer does not necessarily lend one authority. In fact that's all anyone has said to you, including at least one professional author (not that you'd have thought to ask).

They've all been correct too, funnily enough

Seems to me you're struggling to follow the flow here....

When did I ever use the word "correct"? Anywhere. You however seem to feel the need to describe various statements that you agree with as "correct" repeatedly, funnily enough. FYI, just because you agree about something doesn't make it correct.

 

[worf1965]

Fof me I don't mind an underlying serial like in DS9. But not one that continuously pushes plot surprises over careful plot and character development with stand alone episodes, again as shown in DS9.

Season one was one long headache trying to keep up with all the twists and turns. If that's your thing, great. But for me it's not why I watch Trek in all its forms. So far, we've had 3 good episodes and 1 garbage episode (IMO) which harkened back to Season 1. My only complaint in the other 3 episodes so far is I don't like how a show, any show, takes a well known and well loved character and tries to build up some huge controversy around that character which is COMPLETELY inconsistent with EVERYTHING we know about that character.

 

[Spot261]

When did I ever use the word "correct"? Anywhere. You however seem to feel the need to describe various statements that you agree with as "correct" repeatedly, funnily enough. FYI, just because you agree about something doesn't make it correct.

No, but you claimed authority based on being "a writer", knowing next to nothing about the people you were interacting with. I'm disputing that authority because I don't believe it actually lends you any specific credibility, it's just been off putting for several people and several tried to gently make that suggestion to you. Not to put too fine a point on it we have a lot of writers in here, including Star Trek (and other sci fi) novelists and at least one script writer for TNG. That's on top of many academics, artists, indy film makers, critics and other professionals who are more than capable of watching a Star Trek episode and appreciating it on many levels all by themselves.

Some are more successful than others, but it's interesting how many of them don't openly identify themselves unless they are interacting with people who are already "in the know". They (mostly) don't claim any special insight or wisdom unattainable by others, because they know they are on a board inhabited by and large by comparably intelligent people.

 

[Alan Roi]

My only complaint in the other 3 episodes so far is I don't like how a show, any show, takes a well known and well loved character and tries to build up some huge controversy around that character which is COMPLETELY inconsistent with EVERYTHING we know about that character.

the controversy around Spock is completely consistent with everything we know about the character. As an example, it has been demonstrated repeatedly in canon that he whenever he isn't in complete control of his emotions he is a very dangerous and potentially homicidal person to be around. What else do you claim they have gotten wrong?

 

[Alan Roi]

No, but you claimed authority based on being "a writer", knowing next to nothing about the people you were interacting with. I'm disputing that authority because I don't believe it actually lends you any specific credibility, it's just been off putting for several people and several tried to gently make that suggestion to you. Not to put too fine a point on it we have a lot of writers in here, including Star Trek (and other sci fi) novelists and at least one script writer for TNG. That's on top of many academics, artists, indy film makers, critics and other professionals who are more than capable of watching a Star Trek episode and appreciating it on many levels all by themselves.

Some are more successful than others, but it's interesting how many of them don't openly identify themselves unless they are interacting with people who are already "in the know". They (mostly) don't claim any special insight or wisdom unattainable by others, because they know they are on a board inhabited by and large by comparably intelligent people.

I am claiming expanded insight because I have learned how to use a specific set of tools to do a job and I know how to use them and I can see how other people use the same tools and what they are using them to achieve. I was responding to someone who claimed that neither my toolset nor my experience using said toolset offers me any additional insight into what those tools produce any more than someone looking at what I've produced with said tools. You are now claiming the authority to tell me that I don't have any authority to recognize the difference in my insight regarding how other people use the same tools I use from the perspective of both what I lacked in understanding before and after I learned to use these tools.

To further elaborate. I don't think my skillset is something that is particularly "special". But I did approach writing as an educational process, not an egotistical refrain. So when I mention what I do, its not the boast that you seem to think it is, just as if a Doctor pointed out his profession in discussing what actual pain Tilly's character might have experienced when her head was drilled into.

 

[Terok Nor]

I am claiming expanded insight because I have learned how to use a specific set of tools to do a job and I know how to use them and I can see how other people use the same tools and what they are using them to achieve. I was responding to someone who claimed that neither my toolset nor my experience using said toolset offers me any additional insight into what those tools produce any more than someone looking at what I've produced with said tools. You are now claiming the authority to tell me that I don't have any authority to recognize the difference in my insight regarding how other people use the same tools I use from the perspective of both what I lacked in understanding before and after I learned to use these tools.

Your post reminds me of this

"If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it."

 

[KennyB]

Cher Lockholmes? That's funny and sad at the same time Double A.

 

[CorporalClegg]

But do you know why its funny?

I laughed.

 

[Spot261]

I am claiming expanded insight because I have learned how to use a specific set of tools to do a job and I know how to use them and I can see how other people use the same tools and what they are using them to achieve. I was responding to someone who claimed that neither my toolset nor my experience using said toolset offers me any additional insight into what those tools produce any more than someone looking at what I've produced with said tools. You are now claiming the authority to tell me that I don't have any authority to recognize the difference in my insight regarding how other people use the same tools I use from the perspective of both what I lacked in understanding before and after I learned to use these tools.

To further elaborate. I don't think my skillset is something that is particularly "special". But I did approach writing as an educational process, not an egotistical refrain. So when I mention what I do, its not the boast that you seem to think it is, just as if a Doctor pointed out his profession in discussing what actual pain Tilly's character might have experienced when her head was drilled into.

The person you were responding to has good reason to know what he's talking about and he said they don't necessarily gaurantee that additional insight.

I don't wish to do this ad infinitum but I was trying initially to suggest you should consider how patronisingly you were (and are) presenting in a space where you have no idea what skillsets are available to others. I'm not claiming any authority beyond the simple ability to observe a human interaction, one where you were making gaffe after gaffe.

Up to you what you do with that observation.

 

[Alan Roi]

Cher Lockholmes? That's funny and sad at the same time Double A.

Anyone who has ever had a co-writer knows, you don't get to make all the decisions yourself.

 

[fireproof78]

C'mon guys....it's getting a little distracting. Know what I mean?

*hands you popcorn*

 

[Hythlodeus]

*grabs popcorn and runs away*

 

[DigificWriter]

Before this last episode, I would've absolutely said yes to this question, but now I need to see if the series bounces back with Episode 5.

 

[Alan Roi]

Before this last episode, I would've absolutely said yes to this question, but now I need to see if the series bounces back with Episode 5.

Team Disco might bounce back as they've put Tilly on the IR and recalled Emperor Georgieou from the farm team. She has a pretty unbeatable backhand as I recall.