Timothy Westphall dreamed it all up. There. We're finished. 
SNW truly respects TOS continuity!
- Thread starter C.E. Evans
- Start date
spoilers for recent Dr. Who episodesIt’s a bit like the debate around Peter Cushing Doctor Who and *real* Doctor Who isn’t it really!
Peter Cushing is obviously an incarnation of the Doctor that was erased by the Division. His movie duology is the ultimate Dr. Who prequel
Maybe All Star Trek can be re converged in an anthology series linked to movies leading up to a *real* prime timeline continuation? All the multiverse crews throughout history working together to solve a problem across universes, time and space which lead to everything being restored to prime timeline in the 25th century after Picard season 3?
See, that is my issue. We have a difference of opinion and this type of comment just furthers the argument. I can also say you are incorrect, but when it comes to differing opinions, they are not incorrect, just not agreed on.
While I don't agree with @yotsuya , I will support that his point of view isn't incorrect. It is different from a lot of other fans' and more importantly the license holder CBS. But it isn't incorrect from a hard factual standpoint like saying the ocean is made out of soda or something.
I've noticed a lot of "that person is wrong period" comments even from people who I generally agree with. But as I said before, nothing can be done and posting about it probably won't further one's cause if one doesn't like the new shows. Just don't subscribe to CBS and write them a letter if you must. That's all one can do.
I've noticed a lot of "that person is wrong period" comments even from people who I generally agree with. But as I said before, nothing can be done and posting about it probably won't further one's cause if one doesn't like the new shows. Just don't subscribe to CBS and write them a letter if you must. That's all one can do.
No. sorry. When when it comes to what is officially Canon WRT the Star Trek franchise; that is 100% determined by the studio and the production staff currently in charge of making new Star Trek.
It's not an opinion that's just how it works in the real world. Thus as I said oh, you are simply incorrect. In this situation that's not an opinion, it's just a cold hard fact.
Yep. CBS/Paramount says that DSC and SNW take place in the same universe as TOS, so that's the facts, at least as far as a completely fictional TV show goes. Even though the shows look nothing like TOS, the characters act nothing like their TOS counterparts, and the Enterprise looks nothing like it did in TOS, inside or out. But apparently that's irrelevant.
Minor spoilers for Picard.
Wesley: The last time I told a joke, I inadvertently changed a century's worth of history, so I work really hard to not be misunderstood.
I'm going to guess it was the 23rd century.
I'm going to guess it was the 23rd century.
That is an interesting take. So if to him canon is the words, I can close my eyes and imagine the original look with SNW. I still have issue with a few things with SNW that don't fit. But when I consider it a reboot, I can just sit back and enjoy. It is a matter of how to take it in so you can best enjoy it.
But to some of us, canon is EVERYTHING seen on screen. I take into account tweaks for Hollywood shortcuts, but to me the visuals are an integral part of canon. Part, but not all, of the reason I consider Discovery and SNW reboots.
It's not irrelevant. It's just part of the process and then fans overanalyze to try and make it work together. At least, in the past, that was what was done. Except now, the attitude appears to be less one of reconciliation and more one of "baby out with the bathwater." Sets change? New Timeline! Characters act slightly different? New timeline! Aliens appearing before fans expect it? I'll let you fill in the answer.
Personally, and this is just me, a new timeline, or reboot, or whatever, is all well and good, but misses the point of trying to reconcile it. I would rather be a part of these characters at this stage in life, journey with them to the next stage, which happens to be TOS, and accept that there was changes in life, than treat them as too different to have my investment from the past.
It's kind of like the theory that the end of Back to the Future is kind of horrifying if you think about it. Marty has memories of his deadbeat brother, his spineless dad, and his alcoholic mom. But, when goes back and his dad is a success, his mom is happy, his brother works at the office, and his sister apparently is allowed to date. They will reference events that Marty has no memories of, but he still loves his family. So, either we focus on the things that are different, or find common ground.
Ultimately, each fan will decide that line in terms of investment. What they won't decide is canon status. We don't get to do that, any more than Marty gets to choose his family.
Apparently so. Lots of strong opinions that CBS/Paramount are the bosses.
Well there is another option not mentioned here. Find a way to make a lot of money, then buy them out!
I eagerly await the day.Well there is another option not mentioned here. Find a way to make a lot of money, then buy them out!
To me finding common ground lies in a reboot. It takes place in a parallel universe following a very similar timeline. So we can imagine that in the original TOS timeline these same events took place, even if they were slightly different. I am more than willing to accept they are following a very similar timeline, but putting them in the same universe just doesn't work for me. They are too different in too many ways. Sure if you just look at the words things are pretty close, but when you look at everything, the differences are glaring. But seen through the reboot lens, you can just enjoy it and not sweat the differences and not worry about reconciling them. That is why I like it. It is part of the Star Trek multiverse. Enjoy all parts and let the differences fall away.
I hear what you're saying. But in the end, I believe that CBS's original modus for proclaiming DSC part of the TOS universe had nothing to do with showing these characters at a different point in their lives. It had more to do with getting more viewers to subscribe to CBSAA with the idea that their new show is linked to the most popular Trek show ever produced, rather than believing that their new show could stand on its own without that sort of help. Just my opinion.
And that's fine though I don't agree because to me a reboot basically dismisses out of hand any connective tissue.
Now, here's my view though: TOS was never a presentation of actual reality. This comes from reading all the TOS film novels, and TOS basically being diminished as an interpretation of events documented by Kirk, rather than literal truth. Clunky, perhaps, but that's how it works for me.
Regardless, this statement I agree with: you can just enjoy it and not sweat the differences and not worry about reconciling them.
Yes, I do. Not as a reboot, but as a dramatization of future events, interpreted by different authors.
Even if that's the case it still doesn't change my view. Either I reconcile it or it's a split timeline. In either case, it comes down to personal enjoyment, not canon status. Some will enjoy it as a reboot. I don't agree with that view, but I also don't care all that much. I don't sit there with a history book demanding history be adhered to as I watch SNW. I watch the show. And reconcile it later. That's how my fan work has always been.
Mileage will vary.
It seemingly worked. Trek was reinvigorated like never before. That wasn't a sure thing going into this. We're reading the news about Netflix bleeding subscribers and money. But not Paramount Plus (yet). I feel sorry for Henry Cavill having to shoulder the entire weight of Netflix on his shoulders.
Not just yours. I totally agree.
I'm not trying to change your view, or anyone else's. I'm pointing out that while CBS does have the right to declare DSC and SNW to be part of the same universe as TOS, that they are not bothering to actually practice what they preach in regards to consistency, continuity, characters, and the overall look and feel of the show they claim to be linked to. I'm not saying that's a bad thing; I'm saying that that kind of thing is simply irrelevant to them.
To me, shows like DSC and SNW feel like reboots rather than prequels. I find that I can enjoy them more when I don't feel the need to link them to some other show. I don't think CBS quite understands that.
I'm not sure that Trek has been as 'reinvigorated' as you seem to think. At least not with this fan. I find that I feel lukewarm about DSC (still haven't gotten around to season 4), annoyance with PIC, indifference about LDS, and mildly interested in PRO. Have yet to watch SNW so I can't speak for that show.
I don't think it is as irrelevant as fans think. We just have a different viewpoint on balancing the requirements of making entertainment (rule number one) and continuing on past shows.
Discovery, as much as I can reconcile it, is definitely different. SNW just looks like a different interpretation that matches up with "our future" like TOS did in the 60s. Which is why it works for me.
The look and feel is not as important as characters and themes.
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