SNW Chapel seems to have all of TOS Uhura traits.
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Well, that's the thing. All these "defining characteristics" that are being thrown about are hardly present. They strike me as more fan interpretation, and SNW is having the audacity to upend fan expectations, which is the worst sin it can do as a Star Trek show.
point is she was of all these girls...at least she showed the trait most that she could be an action girl. it was used more in JJ Trek. In star trek beyond, she takes out many of Krall's guys. in beyond she does stab a Klingon and was ready to dive deep under water with the boys. Zoe Saldana gave a lot of Tomb Raider vibe in the first arc of into darkness.
Chapel should not even be action girl. she is a nurse. It is so far of her job sector lol.. I think episode 7 got a lot of criticism for that.
Uhura at least is a commination officer so it make a little more sense that she can be handy but this is how much they are trying to reinvent Chapel that she has no resemblance to her TOS Counterpart. fans are right tat she should just have been a new character.
the only thing is she is not a brand new character she is a mixed of TOS/JJ Uhura. Maybe this will even have been fine, if what is suppose to be the real uhura was not in SNW but beause she is, it is too noticeable, especially when Uhura was such an iconic groundbreaking female character of color. so it is 2 times more noticeable when another female character is giving her traits.
TLDR Translation of the above:
"More than one emotionally strong and physically active/able female character in a Star Trek series threatens my masculinity... so I will rail against that as much as I can."
I've only met one emotionally strong female in my life. Two is impossible. It's like a Yoda situation in here. "An emotionally strong female you have, Qui-Gon. Impossible to take a second."
"The Code forbids it."
I love the 4 minutes when Chapel had a personality video! That is most definitely the character that Bush is playing, although leaving out her scenes in Spock's quarters in Amok Time, her saving the day in Return to Tomorrow, and her baring her soul in Plato's Stepchildren should be included in there, taking it closer to 7 minutes! Her devotion to Spock may, on a superficial level, seem a bit pitiful but it is, nonetheless, part of her character.
I admit, I was a bit disappointed at them framing her as a nurse in SNW as opposed to a civilian research postgraduate. I always got the impression that she took on the role of nurse to secure a position on the ship in TOS, not that it was ever meant to be her profession, and thus she appears to have airs above her station when interacting with M'Benga. Korby also referred to her as a scientist so it could just be that M'Benga understands the depths of her scientific knowledge outside of her position on the ship.
The Chapel I really want to see is the one arguing every little diagnosis with McCoy post TMP.
Still, credit where credit is due, at least they have fleshed her out enough that we can have this conversation. They also haven't felt the need to turn her into a modernised ninja.
With this level of respect for the characterisation of the existing legacy characters, I really want to see their version of Yeoman Rand, or at least engineering specialist Rand.
Their Kyle definitely needs work though.
I admit, I was a bit disappointed at them framing her as a nurse in SNW as opposed to a civilian research postgraduate. I always got the impression that she took on the role of nurse to secure a position on the ship in TOS, not that it was ever meant to be her profession, and thus she appears to have airs above her station when interacting with M'Benga. Korby also referred to her as a scientist so it could just be that M'Benga understands the depths of her scientific knowledge outside of her position on the ship.
The Chapel I really want to see is the one arguing every little diagnosis with McCoy post TMP.
Still, credit where credit is due, at least they have fleshed her out enough that we can have this conversation. They also haven't felt the need to turn her into a modernised ninja.
With this level of respect for the characterisation of the existing legacy characters, I really want to see their version of Yeoman Rand, or at least engineering specialist Rand.
Their Kyle definitely needs work though.
The first episode did call her a civilian. Why she wears a uniform and rank, who knows.
You have done no such thing. You have merely repeated your claim without supporting it.
In order to support your claim, you must construct a logical argument structure. In this argument -- a logical syllogism -- you must define what traits constitute a deconstruction, and then you must demonstrate that SNW's depiction of TOS legacy characters carries those traits that constitute a deconstruction.
In other words, you need to construct a modus ponens syllogism: "If A, then B. A. Therefore, B."
"If ([a work of art] contains [X, Y, and Z traits]), then [that work of art is a deconstruction]. (Star Trek: Strange New Worlds contains [X, Y, and Z traits]). Therefore, (Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is a deconstruction.)"
You have not defined what traits constitute deconstruction, and you have not demonstrated how SNW possesses those traits. Therefore, you have not demonstrated that SNW is a deconstruction.
Absolutely not. A reinvention is taking a foundational premise for a character and then going in a very different direction than the original version went. An example of a reinvention is Spider-Gwen, which takes the most basic premise of the Gwen Stacey character ("blonde girl of the same age as Peter Park") and then takes her in a completely different direction (superhero and punk band member instead of wholesome girl-next-door college student).
A deconstruction is when the narrative analyses the original version to reveal a hidden truth about that original version. A good example of a deconstruction is Alan Moore's original Watchmen -- Doctor Manhattan is a deconstruction of the Superman character that analyses what a personality traits a person given God-like powers would realistically develop and concludes that he would become extremely alienated from the rest of humanity.
They are very, very different creative processes.
Says who? That's just you getting mad about a fake rule you made up yourself.
No. Since TOS Chapel is a very badly-written character, Chapel should not have been like her TOS version and instead should be completely reinvented.
No one said it was. I said this crush was badly-written.
Only if you do not ascribe a full personality and agency to women.
Says who? Nurses are trained to handle potentially violent patients to at least some extent.
Here's the problem: "Confident and flirts occasionally" is not a personality. That you imagine it is says more about your perception of women than it does about the writing on SNW.
valden, cut the crap!
Sci, stop responding!
Both of you, if not, spam warnings will follow.
Sci, stop responding!
Both of you, if not, spam warnings will follow.
She was the only "girl" in both main casts. And in TOS she didn't get much action. The female guest star of the week usually got the action. I hope Sofia Boutella's action scenes didn't cause you too much distress worrying about Zoe career. And I hope Alice Eve didn't steal too much of the spotlight in ITD. Doing missile surgery and fighting bad guys,
Under what logic would a Nurse be exempt from being an "action girl"? Geeze I guess Claire Temple in the MCU should have stuck to band aids and boo boos.
And under what logic would a communications officer have to be an "action girl" over a nurse?
Where do you come up with this stuff? A carrier pigeon from the 1914?
She was the only "girl" in both main casts. And in TOS she didn't get much action. The female guest star of the week usually got the action. I hope Sofia Boutella's action scenes didn't cause you too much distress worrying about Zoe career. And I hope Alice Eve didn't steal too much of the spotlight in ITD. Doing missile surgery and fighting bad guys,
Under what logic would a Nurse be exempt from being an "action girl"? Geeze I guess Claire Temple in the MCU should have stuck to band aids and boo boos.
And under what logic would a communications officer have to be an "action girl" over a nurse?
Where do you come up with this stuff? A carrier pigeon from the 1914?
It would be easily argued that in the world of Trek a nurse is more likely to see ground combat than a comms officer and so should be more capable of handling themselves.
It feels like Valden's arguement comes from the school of "all Klingons are honourable, all Romulans are sneaky, all Borg are massive trance fans (you telling me those lasers and all the green lighting aren't used for a rave? Plus Hive mind = best silent disco ever)". With Chapel she can be a nurse but it must be purely in the caregiver way as Trek admittedly does struggle to handle showing people/races with more than one defining quality.
I'm about the most boring person in the world between 9 and 5 when I'm at work - I'm an accountant, it requires a mindset. But outside of work I am almost the complete antithesis of my job. No reason Chapel or Uhura could not be the same, other than the era in which they were originally written not allowing it
If anything, the yeoman character should have been the action heroine but was poorly implemented. If Rand had been Noel or in charge of the security team as originally intended in COTEOF, we might have seen something more akin to Martha Landon more often but only really Kirk, Spock, and Sulu were any good in a fight. Chekov and Scotty, and most security guards tried but mostly failed and Uhura was little more than a distraction. Landon was only given skills because the actress was trained in judo.She was the only "girl" in both main casts. And in TOS she didn't get much action. The female guest star of the week usually got the action. I hope Sofia Boutella's action scenes didn't cause you too much distress worrying about Zoe career. And I hope Alice Eve didn't steal too much of the spotlight in ITD. Doing missile surgery and fighting bad guys,
Under what logic would a Nurse be exempt from being an "action girl"? Geeze I guess Claire Temple in the MCU should have stuck to band aids and boo boos.
And under what logic would a communications officer have to be an "action girl" over a nurse?
Where do you come up with this stuff? A carrier pigeon from the 1914?
La'an and maybe Una are the action heroines. So I don't view Uhura or Chapel as action characters beyond basic training and I don't compare Saldana's interpretation to Nichols because they are basically different characters, both enjoyable, but Saldana's version lacks Nichols' grace sense of humour and magnetic charisma. I will confess though, I gave a little cheer when, in Beyond, Uhura rescued herself.
If Rand is given an update, I would hope that she is a notch above Uhura and Chapel in the combat stakes, nowhere near Una or La'an, as, like Uhura, she was primarily a technician, so someone who was good at thinking on her feet in a crisis, using whatever was to hand for a left field solution rather than a punch - potentially a lot of fun. She's a character, like Chapel, who could shine without the encumbrance of a crush as her main character arc.
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Well that is life, just bcause you choose to ignore something does not make it go away. Anyone who has seen TOS and SNW would know that Chapel has nothing in common with TOS Chapel and also same for Uhura.
Also you should not be using spider-gwen. spider-gwen is not gwen stacy from 616 which is the main marvel (prime) universe. many marvel characters have reinvented themselves but they are all alternate reality version to the main 616 marvel universe. Also because comic books characters dont age sometimes the characters get a little tweeking.
I am sorry but you are using a non-sensetical argument. Jess Bush Chapel is not meant to be an alternate Chapel like Spider-Gwen. she is meant to be Majel Barret Chapel.
Only if you do not ascribe a full personality and agency to women.
Not really because they could have just let the old TOS Characters be bygones and create a new character. Laan and Ortega are new characters. Jess Bush could have played a new character. instead she is just playing an old character (Uhura)
Here's the problem: "Confident and flirts occasionally" is not a personality. That you imagine it is says more about your perception of women than it does about the writing on SNW.
Say what? lol.
Been confident is a personality. confidence is one of the most top 5 desired personality in the world. even those who are shy will tend to fake been confident on certain circumstances to for example do well in a job interview.
Been flirty is a personality when it comes to men and women, especially when a person know they have the looks and the charm and they can play on that. Jim Kirk has done this a lot. heck I think this is why paul wesley kirk got a poor reception because he has none of the charm of Shatner or Pine.
Uhura is iconic for this also even to the point they overdid in star trek 5 with that awful fan dance, but still, we know Uhura has the charm. a modern interpretation of uhura played by zoe saldana did recapture Uhura flirtiness and charm that was part of her personality.
Best example: Uhura first introduction in star trek 2009. You don't even need to hear any dialogue to know what kind of personality she has.
You can tell from this clip that she was the it girl and maybe the most popular girl in star fleet. Why is that not present in SNW Uhura? however it is with Chapel, something that never was even in TOS because in TOS Uhura was still kind of like the it girl among chapel and Rand this is why Nichelle was called a trailblazer.
Chapel is the JJ Uhura of SNW in every way imaginable
I find the physicality of the actresses is very different. Nichelle flowed, possibly because of her dance training, while Barrett (as Chapel) was gangly and spiky. Gooding and Bush up to a point are conveying that physicality more than Saldana did for me.
Also NuUhura did not seem to be the It Girl to me; she was ambitious, driven, and more serious than TOS Uhura. They have less commonality than Nichols and Gooding IMO. Don't compare Gooding to Saldana. Saldana was not a good sketch of an inexperienced 22 year old cadet. That wasn't the role of anybody in those movies.
nah it is not just about the actress it is about the character. Chapel was very mousy and kind of quiet even dim and sometimes motherly.
One of my siblings who newly got into trek saw TNG and was shocked that it is the same actress that played both chapel and deena troi's mum. now you think of it. jess buch chapel is more like deean troi's mum. this is how far apart SNW and TOS Chapel her.I think Bush plays up those physicality of Nichols or at least has been pushed too by the creators.
Also NuUhura did not seem to be the It Girl to me; she was ambitious, driven, and more serious than TOS Uhura. They have less commonality than Nichols and Gooding IMO. Don't compare Gooding to Saldana. Saldana was not a good sketch of an inexperienced 22 year old cadet. That wasn't the role of anybody in those movies
Actually she was the it girl, That was clear by her entrance in the bar and how she interacts with other cadets. this is why Kirk saw her as a conquest and chased her for 3 years and also the bar fight where the other star fleet guys beat up Kirk for harassing her. sure she was serious but she had a very flirty and playful side.
the comparison between Gooding and Saldana was in -escapable. Paul Wesley gets compared to Chris Pine and Chapel even more so get the most comparison to Majel because she is so different from Majel Chapel.
Saldana was actually a better sketch of what Uhura as a cadet would be. Gooding is not a good sketech because she gives too many Wesley Crusher vibe and looks nothing like a young Nichols. Also gooding uhura seem to have been payed down. there is just no way for any trek show to ever re-imagaine Uhura as been a kid or a teen when Spock, Chapel and Una seem to have passed there teenage phase.
Watch the actresses playing Uhura in Star Trek Continues. You get a chill when they stand from their station because they observed how Nichols does it. She flows. Jess Bush does not flow. She bounces.
Also, have you met any women? NuUhura was not flirting with NuKirk. He was trying to flirt with her.
As already stated, Jess Bush viewed the 4 minutes when Chapel had a personality video and based young Chapel off them. That's still canon Chapel, just dialled up all the time due to her youth.
Lwaxana was Majel playing herself dialled up to the max, if you read interviews from the time. So yeah, if you were saying Jess Bush has put a bit too much Lwaxana into Chapel, maybe that's more arguable.
But this is not NuTrek. I do not want SNW Uhura based off Saldana and I definitely do not want SNW Scotty or Kirk based off
Pegg or Pine. They are different characters.
In JJ Trek uhura sort of flirted back for some of their scenes together. she could handle kirk as she said in the bar. the way the movie set things up, it leds us to think kirk and uhura will be an item until they twisted it that it was spock and uhura that were the item and have maybe been an item even before she met kirk at that bar.
Bush is more like Lwaxana , true. Also you said jesh bush bounces, that was JJ Trek uhura too. lol. her first scene in the 2009 movie she bounces her way through the bar. She even bounces more than Jess Bush does because JJ Abrams was playing a Guitar number. Just more prove snw chapel is a redo of jj uhura.
Pine is a better Kirk than Wesley by light years and by star trek beyond, Pine was becoming like Shatner. However I credit this more to Pine just been a better actor than Paul Wesley.
Pegg has some of AOS Kirk but sometimes it goes a little into parody.
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