Agreed. In fact, I think it's pretty likely that Christian, Sayid and Claire are all agents of Smokey.
Small Things You Want Answered
- Thread starter The Boy Who Cried Worf
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Agreed. In fact, I think it's pretty likely that Christian, Sayid and Claire are all agents of Smokey.
I think the Christian that talked to Locke twice, both times to try and get him to move the Island, is not the Smoke monster and in fact is working against the smoke monster.
I Locke had listened to him the first time and moved the Island himself (not getting Ben to do it) then Locke would never have died. Ben wouldn't have been off Island to kill him. Also the Island would never have been skipping through time, most of the other survivors of flight 815 would have survived, etc...
But because John didn't follow Christian's exact words the first time, a lot of bad things happened, and Locke had to turn the wheel again. This time sending him off Island and into Widmores, then Ben's, waiting hands. Where he was murdered. And his death and body used by Ben to get everyone else to come back to the Island.
So, if Locke had followed Christian's instructions correctly the first time, then all of the bad stuff would never have happened. Jacob would still be alive, Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sayid & Sun (and Locke) would be safely off the Island. And everyone left back on the Island would at least be safe and alive, not killed off by time jumps and brain damage and US soldiers and 1954 "Others" with flaming arrows. Ben would also be "stuck" on the Island and not able to kill Locke.
So that makes Christian's original plan for Locke one of a good guy. Not some agent or version of Smokie trying to mess everything up.
I Locke had listened to him the first time and moved the Island himself (not getting Ben to do it) then Locke would never have died. Ben wouldn't have been off Island to kill him. Also the Island would never have been skipping through time, most of the other survivors of flight 815 would have survived, etc...
But because John didn't follow Christian's exact words the first time, a lot of bad things happened, and Locke had to turn the wheel again. This time sending him off Island and into Widmores, then Ben's, waiting hands. Where he was murdered. And his death and body used by Ben to get everyone else to come back to the Island.
So, if Locke had followed Christian's instructions correctly the first time, then all of the bad stuff would never have happened. Jacob would still be alive, Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sayid & Sun (and Locke) would be safely off the Island. And everyone left back on the Island would at least be safe and alive, not killed off by time jumps and brain damage and US soldiers and 1954 "Others" with flaming arrows. Ben would also be "stuck" on the Island and not able to kill Locke.
So that makes Christian's original plan for Locke one of a good guy. Not some agent or version of Smokie trying to mess everything up.
Who is R.G.? And why will they "always be with" Naomi?
But that second time wasn't it specifically Christian who told Locke he had to die?
It was NotLock, during one of the timejumps, that told Locke he was going to have to die (by telling Richard Alpert to tell Locke).
They showed us that scene twice (from both Locke's perspectives). So it was really the MIB (as NotLocke, using Richard Alpert) who told the time jumping normal Locke that he had to die.
Now I can't remember 100% if, the second time they met, Christian also told Locke he would have to die but I don't think so. All I think he said was that Locke might have to make a great sacrifice or something like that. I have to watch the episode again to see for sure. And that sacrifice might have been that Locke could never return to the Island again. That he might have to give up the place he loved to save it. or something like that. It didn't necessarily mean that he would have to die. It's just that NotLocke put that idea into Locke's head.
But even then, if Ben hadn't been off of the Island then Locke might A) not have died. he could have not hung himself at the last min. or he would have survived trying to kill himself. Remember he couldn't have committed suicide, he was one of Jacob's candidates. So something would have happened to save him even if Ben hadn't shown up.
It was also Ben who killed Locke and got everyone else, except for Sayid & Hurley & Frank, on the plane and back to the Island.
So if Ben hadn't moved the Island the first time, if Locke had done it, then the MIB would not be in the position he is now to escape. And Jacob would still be alive. And there would still be one or two candidates (Sawyer & Jin) left on the Island to replace Jacob if it ever became necessary. So things would have been perfect if Locke had moved the Island the first time.
So I don't think Christian can be a version of the smoke monster, because he would have been risking destroying his plans forever if Locke had moved the island the first time.
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Yeah, so sayeth Darlton.
I can't recall the exact scene either, but I was pretty sure that after Locke fell down the well and before he turned the wheel, Christian told him he was going to have to die in order to save the rest.
ETA: Just checked the transcript at Lostpedia, and while Christian didn't explicitly tell John he had to die, he also didn't deny it when John mentioned it.
LOCKE: Richard said I was going to die.
CHRISTIAN: Well, I suppose that's why they call it sacrifice.
When Ilana was asleep on the Ajira flight, she woke up suddenly and whispered, "Sarah!" Who is Sarah to her?
I just rewatched the first 5 seasons before this Season began and Christian absolutely did tell Locke he would have to die right before Locke turned the Donkey Wheel in the Cave.
It's possible that Christian wanted or knew that Locke would have to die for completely different reasons that Flocke wanted Locke to die, but given the body of evidence of how Flocke is able to influence/control people who were dead (Sayid/Claire), I don't know why there's that much doubt in regards to who Christian is and who he's working for.
I don't think Christian is a version of the smoke monster, I think he's like Sayid....someone who was dead and was claimed by the smoke monster.
I thought she said "Jarrah". Though I have no idea why she would.
In response to the original question for this thread, I wouldn't mind seeing a little more about how/why the island apparently heals people, specifically how it was that Locke could walk again. I'm guessing we've gotten pretty much all we're going to get on that but I hope they develop it more.
Jacob!
1. What was up with Richard showing up to give kid Locke a test and why did Locke fail it?
2. Does Locke have any special purpose or connection with the island? He seemed to think he did, but other than becoming the leader of the Others(which as we saw from Jacob's ignoring of Ben is not a position all that important to Jacob) for a short time he doesn't seem all that important to things anymore. Being dead he obviously wasn't one of the real candidates to succeed Jacob.
3. Why did Jacob whisper "help me" and was it Locke he wanted help from?
4. Who was on the boat that Jacob brought to the island when he and the MIB were talking on the beach and what time period was that?
2. Does Locke have any special purpose or connection with the island? He seemed to think he did, but other than becoming the leader of the Others(which as we saw from Jacob's ignoring of Ben is not a position all that important to Jacob) for a short time he doesn't seem all that important to things anymore. Being dead he obviously wasn't one of the real candidates to succeed Jacob.
3. Why did Jacob whisper "help me" and was it Locke he wanted help from?
4. Who was on the boat that Jacob brought to the island when he and the MIB were talking on the beach and what time period was that?
In retrospect, I think Richard was trying to track down the man who had visited him in the 1950s. He managed to find him as a baby in the hospital, but maybe he lost track of him after he went into foster care. I'm not 100% sure, but wasn't one of the items that Richard had on the table a compass? Could it be the same compass that already belonged to Locke in Season 5? The kid didn't choose the compass, which is why Richard claimed that he failed the test.
I think Richard was sure that this was the right Locke when he tested him, but I don't know if he 100% believed older, time traveling Locke that he would grow up to be the leader of the Others. Then when Locke took the knife, rather then the compass, I think Richard was upset. Remember Locke always wanted to be more then he was. He wanted to be a football player, not a science nerd. He wanted to be a "general" not an office clerk. Even when he was a kid, he chose the knife because he wanted to be a "hunter". But Richard didn't want someone who would chose a knife over the compass. He wanted a leader not a "hunter". So I think it was just another example of Locke screwing himself over by trying to be what he wanted or imagined himself to be, rather then accepting who he was.
If kid Locke had actually gone with what he felt was right (the compass) rather then what he thought was "cool" (the knife) he might have passed Richard's test and been taken to the Island much earlier and raised to be the Leader of the Others.
I think Locke was always just a sad person. He always wanted to be more then what he was and couldn't accept it.
Yes he had a destiny on the island, just like Jack and Sawyer and all the rest on Jacob's list. He was brought to the Island for a reason... But after that he was on his own, like Jacob said to Richard, Locke had to make his own fate. Unfortunately his own flaws and self-doubt and arrogance (and manipulations by Ben & Christian) led to downfall and death.
But maybe that was his destiny. To fail. But in doing so he managed to lead Jack to his destiny.
Kind of like Obi-Won. He had to lead Luke so far, then die at Vader's hands in order to allow Luke to go on and fulfill his destiny.
Locke's destiny was to help push and prod Jack on to the right course. Then Locke died to give Jack the final push necessary to get back to the Island and accept his own destiny. Now it is up to Jack to live up to it all. So many people died to get him where he is both physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Hopefully Jack will rise to the occasion and make all of those deaths and sacrifices worth while by stopping the MIB and saving the Island and the world.
I just remembered one that's gonna bug me if they don't answer it: why did Desmond see Claire getting on a helicopter? Is this yet to happen? Are the writers going to simply forget about it? Was Desmond lying to convince Charlie what had to be done?
Or it could be that the future changed. We know Desmond was able to change the futures that he saw. The only thing he couldn't change was that Charlie was destined to die. No matter what Desmond changed, Charlie would eventually die. But other things, non-death things, he could change whether on purpose or by accident (by not following the "path" that he saw).
So I just figure that that future (Claire getting on the helicopter) was changed when Charlie told Desmond that it wasn't Penny's boat and then Desmond went back and told the rest of the Losties that. That led to them all splitting up and Claire going with Locke. it also led to Locke kidnapping some of the freighter folk and acting hostile to them. If everyone had played nice, they all might have been flown back to the freighter.
So, if Charlie hadn't given Desmond that message, or if Desmond hadn't told the rest of them, then Claire might have been on Franks copter going back to the freighter. (of course she might have then died or been killed on the freighter but she would have gotten on the helicopter.)
So I just think it was one of those things that changed and showed us that Desmond could change the future.
Here's something I've been wondering about recently: when Jack is in the funeral home with Locke's body, he says that Locke told him some very bad things happened after he left the island.
What were those very bad things? The only bad thing I can recall happening between Jack leaving and then Locke leaving that Locke would know about is Charlotte's death, and with all the other deaths before that, it hardly seems worth mentioning. The only other significant event was the time-jumping, but why might Locke call that very bad?
What were those very bad things? The only bad thing I can recall happening between Jack leaving and then Locke leaving that Locke would know about is Charlotte's death, and with all the other deaths before that, it hardly seems worth mentioning. The only other significant event was the time-jumping, but why might Locke call that very bad?
