Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

[junkdata]

By "people" you mean you, right?

Well pfft.

Hey I bet you like ship pr0n though, not ship as in shipping but actual Enterprises getting it on. Is it Star Trek? Or is it some wild mecha manga wannabe? YOU be the judge (which you are obviously into doing).

Handbags at dawn?

Come on.

Star trek has established characterisation. Lets say I want to turn Kirk into a woman and Uhuru into a dog. And they fly off on a unicorn together.

Is it fiction? Tick.

Is it sci fi? Um...

Is it sill Star Trek? Um....

Dont make me THAT guy. We are arguing about two different things, and your sensitivity is blinding you to this.

Go slap Gandhi. Honestly, if Star trek had a gay captain or something, then thats generically congruent. If you turn Kirk and spock gay, after the fact, just to make yourself satiated then thats autobiographical to you, not a coherent characterisation of them.

Authors who dont believe in criticism are ridiculous.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

You don't get to tell people who write fanfiction that they can't call it Star Trek: Doing It on Risa if seemingly heterosexual characters from the tv series are having same sex relations in their story. NO ONE needs you or anyone else to come along and tell fanfiction writers that they can't use the term "Star Trek" because in their stories the wrong people are gay.

Why are you swearing at strangers online?

How is that following the rules of site, or in any way conducting polite conversation.

You are trolling me or trolling yourself at this point.

I can say anything I like, within the rules of this site, and frankly if my argument is correct.

And it is correct. Being in a fan fiction circle doesnt mean anyone is going to take you seriously in the real world.

You can call it Star Trek all you want, if you are legally entitled to do so. It doesn't mean anyone takes it seriously as Star Trek if you destroy the characterisation, or Sci Fi if you write a fantasy.

Did you honestly think you were re writing the rules of literature, by knocking off an in-congruent and mis appropriated FANtasy story.

Kids do that with disney characters all the time.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

"Turning it into something sexual just ruins it" for YOU.

However you are not the arbiter of ME and how I enjoy my fiction. Nor does my enjoyment of turning bromances into something sexual have any effect at all on your enjoyment of the bromance as a platonic friendship.

Guess what, you aren't killing my buzz by only seeing these bromances as platonic for yourself. And if you see my sexualizing of these bromances as having any effect on you then you're taking other people's fun way too personally.

Well I believe that is why it is called FICTION or to be exact FANFICTION

Notice how whenever a film has a bad script the main criticism is that the scripts reads like a fan fiction and not a script written by professional writers.

I am trying to make clear of the difference between the two.

I am not trying to mess with your pleasure or what turns you on what I am saying is there is a fine line between an actual serious story to tell that soft porn fanfiction written from a fan perspective usually girls

at the oscars fanfictions of a film do not win awards...The original and adapted screen play does.

Have fun with whatever you want but blurring the line between the two would get you very confused.

xavier where did anyone ever claim fanfiction was the same as fiction on the screen?

Oh except for 50 Shades of course, which started out as Twilight fanfiction and made the writer millions of dollars, go her. A "girl" though, so you'd best dismiss her as such

 

[junkdata]

I am the last person on this BBS who you can call entitled. My posting here is sporadic to say the least. When I joined the BBS I took my time to get the feel of the place and understand the posting atmosphere before I jumped in. It just seemed like common courtesy.

I am not a mod so I will not derail any further. Technically you are not breaking any rules so knock yourself out but if you keep talking to people the way you just responded to me I feel that your time here will be brief. Take that for what it's worth.

Kirk out.

/snaps communicator shut

I dont care. You initiated the attack and expected deference from a stranger you just attacked.

If you want to "bully by proxy" with the ban hammer, you should realize this is the internet, and you're not the only one who knows how to "appeal to a proxy", when people want to take the piss like that.

Be nice to people and people will be nice to you.

At the very least they will follow the rules.

Don't create trolls by attacking people you dont know, seeking deference from people youve just attacked, and then hiding behind tenure and threatening people with 100 proxies and alt emails with teh ban hammer.

Play nice.

Proxies and alt emails...ban hammers? What the...

Strawman arguing, goalpoast moving...etc.

Right...

You made personal attacks, and appeals to authority, and threats by proxy, just because you got upset that someone pointed out the naked stupidity of your argument.

Well done.

"Everything I write is sci fi- because its fiction!!!"

"Everything I write is Star Trek, - because I typed Star Trek on the cover!!!"

This is your argument.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Handbags at dawn?

Come on.

Star trek has established characterisation. Lets say I want to turn Kirk into a woman and Uhuru into a dog. And they fly off on a unicorn together.

Is it fiction? Tick.

Is it sci fi? Um...

Is it sill Star Trek? Um....

Dont make me THAT guy. We are arguing about two different things, and your sensitivity is blinding you to this.

Go slap Gandhi. Honestly, if Star trek had a gay captain or something, then thats generically congruent. If you turn Kirk and spock gay, after the fact, just to make yourself satiated then thats autobiographical to you, not a coherent characterisation of them.

Authors who dont believe in criticism are ridiculous.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

You don't get to tell people who write fanfiction that they can't call it Star Trek: Doing It on Risa if seemingly heterosexual characters from the tv series are having same sex relations in their story. NO ONE needs you or anyone else to come along and tell fanfiction writers that they can't use the term "Star Trek" because in their stories the wrong people are gay.

Why are you swearing at strangers online?

How is that following the rules of site, or in any way conducting polite conversation.

You are trolling me or trolling yourself at this point.

I can say anything I like, within the rules of this site, and frankly if my argument is correct.

And it is correct. Being in a fan fiction circle doesnt mean anyone is going to take you seriously in the real world.

You can call it Star Trek all you want, if you are legally entitled to do so. It doesn't mean anyone takes it seriously as Star Trek if you destroy the characterisation, or Sci Fi if you write a fantasy.

Did you honestly think you were re writing the rules of literature, by knocking off an in-congruent and mis appropriated FANtasy story.

Kids do that with disney characters all the time.

Where did I or anyone else say we were rewriting rules of literature?

Where did I or anyone else say they expected to be taken seriously by "the real world", whatever that is?

Like I said, you seem to be missing the whole point of fun. There are at least 500,000 fanfiction stories on the internet, and they started long before that. Star Trek launched slash as a fanfiction genre which some people are proud of. None of this has anything to do with rules, literature, being taken seriously by Hollywood or whatever. It's a subculture dipped into by a huge subsection of fandom of all kinds of fictions and it doesn't need your blessing or rules about who can name things.

 

[borgboy]

Gay characters can't be in an actual serious Star Trek story ?
Many people ship supposedly straight characters as romantic and/or write fan fic to fill a void left by Treks erasure of LGBT.

 

[Use of Time]

I dont care. You initiated the attack and expected deference from a stranger you just attacked.

If you want to "bully by proxy" with the ban hammer, you should realize this is the internet, and you're not the only one who knows how to "appeal to a proxy", when people want to take the piss like that.

Be nice to people and people will be nice to you.

At the very least they will follow the rules.

Don't create trolls by attacking people you dont know, seeking deference from people youve just attacked, and then hiding behind tenure and threatening people with 100 proxies and alt emails with teh ban hammer.

Play nice.

Proxies and alt emails...ban hammers? What the...

Strawman arguing, goalpoast moving...etc.

Right...

You made personal attacks, and appeals to authority, and threats by proxy, just because you got upset that someone pointed out the naked stupidity of your argument.

Well done.

"Everything I write is sci fi- because its fiction!!!"

"Everything I write is Star Trek, - because I typed Star Trek on the cover!!!"

This is your argument.

Wowza. You called me an ass in your post to me. I never once threatened you. Tried to warn you of what is acceptable behavior here, yes. Threatened you, no.

I haven't even come close to joining in on the discussion of the sci-fi fanfic argument so I can only assume that was for Teacake. Reading comprehension and all that.

 

[junkdata]

Gay characters can't be in an actual serious Star Trek story ?
Many people ship supposedly straight characters as romantic and/or write fan fic to fill a void left by Treks erasure of LGBT.

No one said that. I made the thread to say there should be LBGT characters. It doesn't mean to can make believe Spock and Kirk are gay, and expect others to see that as canonical star trek. And it doesnt mean you can write fiction, and expect it to be labelled by anyone other than you, as sci fi, if it doesnt follow the tenets of sci fi. Saying "its fiction!", so there are no rules to how its generically classified, is ridiculous.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What does gayness have to do with the "tenets of sci fi"?

 

[junkdata]

Proxies and alt emails...ban hammers? What the...

Strawman arguing, goalpoast moving...etc.

Right...

You made personal attacks, and appeals to authority, and threats by proxy, just because you got upset that someone pointed out the naked stupidity of your argument.

Well done.

"Everything I write is sci fi- because its fiction!!!"

"Everything I write is Star Trek, - because I typed Star Trek on the cover!!!"

This is your argument.

Wowza. You called me an ass in your post to me. I never once threatened you. Tried to warn you of what is acceptable behavior here, yes. Threatened you, no.

Stop harassing me.

I dont want your opinion on anything.

If you want to reply to my post, keep it on topic, otherwise Ill be fine using the rule book and my own judgement, thank you. No one asked you for your personal council service, so all due respect, piss off Troi!

I haven't even come close to joining in on the discussion of the sci-fi fanfic argument so I can only assume that was for Teacake. Reading comprehension and all that.

SMFH.

You havent even come close to posting on topic.

You just false modded strangers, attacked them, threatened a banhammer by proxy and then waffled on about how you were hard done by.

Get out of my living room son.

 

[Use of Time]

Right...

You made personal attacks, and appeals to authority, and threats by proxy, just because you got upset that someone pointed out the naked stupidity of your argument.

Well done.

"Everything I write is sci fi- because its fiction!!!"

"Everything I write is Star Trek, - because I typed Star Trek on the cover!!!"

This is your argument.

Wowza. You called me an ass in your post to me. I never once threatened you. Tried to warn you of what is acceptable behavior here, yes. Threatened you, no.

Stop harassing me.

I dont want your opinion on anything.

If you want to reply to my post, keep it on topic, otherwise Ill use the rule book and my own judgement, thank you.

I haven't even come close to joining in on the discussion of the sci-fi fanfic argument so I can only assume that was for Teacake. Reading comprehension and all that.

SMFH.

You havent even come close to posting on topic.

You just false modded strangers, attacked them, threatened a banhammer by proxy and then waffled on about how you were hard done by.

Get out of my living room son.

I think you are being overly dramatic dad.

 

[junkdata]

What does gayness have to do with the "tenets of sci fi"?

Nothing.

That was in response to the argument that "fiction = anything goes, so therefore there are no rules to how people classify fiction." Obviously fiction means you can write what you like. It doesnt mean it will then be magically classified as sci fi, because you included a space ship.

 

[junkdata]

Wowza. You called me an ass in your post to me. I never once threatened you. Tried to warn you of what is acceptable behavior here, yes. Threatened you, no.

Stop harassing me.

I dont want your opinion on anything.

If you want to reply to my post, keep it on topic, otherwise Ill use the rule book and my own judgement, thank you.

I haven't even come close to joining in on the discussion of the sci-fi fanfic argument so I can only assume that was for Teacake. Reading comprehension and all that.

SMFH.

You havent even come close to posting on topic.

You just false modded strangers, attacked them, threatened a banhammer by proxy and then waffled on about how you were hard done by.

Get out of my living room son.

I think you are being overly dramatic dad.

I agree that its a silly side argument.

Surely you agree with my actual two arguments -

1 Typing the words "Star Trek" doesn't mean it will be seen as star trek.

2 The fact something is fictional, doesn't make it science fiction.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

https://www.fanfiction.net/tv/?l=s

Added it up quick, but this site alone has 25,000 stories labeled "Star Trek".

Maybe you should write them an email, you know let them now there might be fakes in there. With unicorns.

Hey remember that time Barclay turned into a spider?

 

[Use of Time]

Stop harassing me.

I dont want your opinion on anything.

If you want to reply to my post, keep it on topic, otherwise Ill use the rule book and my own judgement, thank you.




SMFH.

You havent even come close to posting on topic.

You just false modded strangers, attacked them, threatened a banhammer by proxy and then waffled on about how you were hard done by.

Get out of my living room son.

I think you are being overly dramatic dad.

I agree that its a silly side argument.

Surely you agree with actual two arguments -

1 Typing the words "Star Trek" doesn't mean it will be seen as star trek.

2 The fact something is fictional, doesn't make it science fiction.

She wasn't running her work through a goddamn publisher man. It's an internet community where people enjoy sharing different takes on Star Trek. Whether or not those takes be sexual, philosophical or political is immaterial.

1) It depends on the audience. Right?
2) Who cares what genre people call fanfic.

Stop being a killjoy. It doesn't affect you in any possible way.

 

[junkdata]

https://www.fanfiction.net/tv/?l=s

Added it up quick, but this site alone has 25,000 stories labeled "Star Trek".

Maybe you should write them an email, you know let them now there might be fakes in there. With unicorns.

I dont know who hurt your feelies, but Im damn sure it wasnt me.

It is perfectly possible to write sci fi. It is perfectly possible to write star trek.

Nothing you have said, or I have said, is about to reclassify literature, and nothing you have said or I have said, is going to turn FANtasy into canon or coherent, congruent work.

Your appeal to pastiche, parody and homage, is very cute though.

Star trek the homohomage.



Nice. It might just catch on.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

MY hall?

Oh if that was my hall I would be very proud. But it isn't.

Still you should be broader minded regarding fans who engage in creative activities that you don't engage in. IDIC and all that.

Oh and the only person bleating on about turning fanfiction into canon is you. No fanfction person has ever said such a thing, the bizarro world attackers of fanfiction just keep trumpeting on that IT IS NEVER GOING TO BE CANON. uhh.. yeah. Did we want it to be? No.

 

[junkdata]

MY hall?

Oh if that was my hall I would be very proud. But it isn't.

Still you should be broader minded regarding fans who engage in creative activities that you don't engage in. IDIC and all that.

Oh and the only person bleating on about turning fanfiction into canon is you. No fanfction person has ever said such a thing, the bizarro world attackers of fanfiction just keep trumpeting on that IT IS NEVER GOING TO BE CANON. uhh.. yeah. Did we want it to be? No.

Dont appeal to the crowd. Its weak.

My authority is 1 Literature and 2 Canonical star trek as a basis for established characterisation.

Fan fiction =/= FANtasy. The fact something isnt accepted as canon, doesnt preclude it from being congruent and coherent as a representation of that world.

The fact you destroy characterisation by assigning false sexuality to the two lead characters does though.

I didnt sign up to be a member of the attackers of fan fiction or what ever group of figures haunts your mind.

I am simply saying that the fact something is fiction, doesn't make it sci fi.

And the fact you type Star trek on something, doesn't make it Star Trek.

Putting the words Star Trek on it, might make it a pastiche to Star trek. It sure as shit, doesn't make it a congruent Star Trek novel, when it features existing characters and completely destroys their characterisation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

TNG's The Host sort of shows an example of near homosexuality. It's something you might miss unless you pay attention to a particular scene and think about it.

This is where the new host Odan turns out to be a female, and Beverly rejects her. Odan wanted to resume the relationship, as two females, but Beverly didn't.

Some fans claim there are some subtle tones of homophobia in it. She was enthusiastic at first when she assumed the new host would be a male, but quickly changed her expression and attitude when she saw it was a female.

Same sex preference or homophobia?

It's not homophobia. Beverly simply doesn't like girls, and was being as nice as possible about it - trying to let Kareel down easy, so to speak.

It would ruin the perception of 24th century humans being perfect and all accepting.

All accepting? If you mean tolerant, then of course. But there will always be sexual preferences. That's human nature, I would think. People will have certain groups that they aren't sexually interested in, things that they won't do, etc. That in itself is harmless. It's all how you express it. If Beverly had said "Eeeewwww!!" when Kareel showed up, that would be prejudicial and rude. But she tried to explain things as harmlessly as possible.

 

[junkdata]

TNG's The Host sort of shows an example of near homosexuality. It's something you might miss unless you pay attention to a particular scene and think about it.

This is where the new host Odan turns out to be a female, and Beverly rejects her. Odan wanted to resume the relationship, as two females, but Beverly didn't.

Some fans claim there are some subtle tones of homophobia in it. She was enthusiastic at first when she assumed the new host would be a male, but quickly changed her expression and attitude when she saw it was a female.

Same sex preference or homophobia?

It's not homophobia. Beverly simply doesn't like girls, and was being as nice as possible about it - trying to let Kareel down easy, so to speak.

You could look at it as anti trans.

Beverly found out her "chick had a d___," and said no.

Same principle more or less.

Beverly found the man of her dream was trapped in a female body, and decided she didn't want to know any more.

Compare that to a guy finding out his GF, used to have male bits, and felt trapped inside a male body, despite being female. Its not analogous, but its close.

 

[1001001]

No. I am saying that if you write fan fiction and its completely incongruous with science fiction or with established star trek characterisation, then dont be surprised if people say its not science fiction or star trek.

It's strange that you are so big on rules considering you are the new guy on the BBS that creates an account and then immediately starts about 50 threads.

That's weak.

I retort -

Its strange that you think spending a lot more time than me on a small website on the internet, entitles you to expect deference over the entire planet, in the fields of literature and being an ass.

You have received an infraction. You can't call another poster an "ass".

As for the rest, I will leave the thread open for now, but please stay on the original topic, and BE NICE, DAMNIT!!!