Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

[xavier]

I do not know oif you are familar with Lord of the rings but frodo and sam are like kirk and spock. two deep friends who shared a journey toghether that defined them and helped shaped them but sam was very much in love with rosie. he married and had kids with her at the end.

Yes well.. what happened in Mordor stays in Mordor.

yeah yeah yeah yeah

Frodo was annoying though but in all serious mnner I hope people get my point.

charles/erik, kirk/spock, frodo/sam

Some of my favorite bromances ever. I even prefer that to the romance they have with girls at times.

my favorite relationship in fiction are usually between two men who are friends but at the same time have a very complicated relationship.

perfect example is charles xavier and magneto from the xmen series.

There is something just special , fun and unique about two male best friends who are at the same time so different and that is why they clash a lot but still maintain their friendship and bond.

turning it into something sexual just ruins it and it becomes some kind of soft porn that is carted to the female fans.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

"Turning it into something sexual just ruins it" for YOU.

However you are not the arbiter of ME and how I enjoy my fiction. Nor does my enjoyment of turning bromances into something sexual have any effect at all on your enjoyment of the bromance as a platonic friendship.

Guess what, you aren't killing my buzz by only seeing these bromances as platonic for yourself. And if you see my sexualizing of these bromances as having any effect on you then you're taking other people's fun way too personally.

 

[Maurice]

The Star Trek: Phase II episode "Blood and Fire" was an episode originally written for the Next Generation's second season, but rejected/canceled due to the writers strike that year.

Gerrold was off the show before the first season was out, ergo "Blood and Fire" was a first season script and had nothing to do with the WGA strike.

 

[Nightdiamond]

It should be noted that some of the writers did try to introduce homosexual characters into Star Trek. These were rejected, or altered most of the time. Closest that it came was probably bisexual in Deep Space Nine (Dax and basically all the Mirror universe non-human females), some gender neutral species in Next Generation and the three sex species in Enterprise.

TNG's The Host sort of shows an example of near homosexuality. It's something you might miss unless you pay attention to a particular scene and think about it.

This is where the new host Odan turns out to be a female, and Beverly rejects her. Odan wanted to resume the relationship, as two females, but Beverly didn't.

Some fans claim there are some subtle tones of homophobia in it. She was enthusiastic at first when she assumed the new host would be a male, but quickly changed her expression and attitude when she saw it was a female.

Same sex preference or homophobia?

I always thought of it like, they're hundreds of years into the future, and it's no longer a big deal like it is today and is therefore not mentioned, in the same way say, hair colour is now. Look how much thing have changed in the last 30 years. Imagine another 2 centuries...

This creates a problem though. Many fans complain that the lack of showing LBGT characters is proof of Trek being regressive or homophobic.

And this is why for example, when Beverly rejects Odan even though it's clearly because she's a female, but she can't say it.

It would ruin the perception of 24th century humans being perfect and all accepting.

So a P.C explanation is given for rejecting Odan.

 

[Maurice]

I don't think it's phobic to not be turned on by someone you're not turned on by. If fact, even if Odan had taken on another male host, that doesn't automatically means she'd have found that one attractive.

 

[junkdata]

"Turning it into something sexual just ruins it" for YOU.

However you are not the arbiter of ME and how I enjoy my fiction. Nor does my enjoyment of turning bromances into something sexual have any effect at all on your enjoyment of the bromance as a platonic friendship.

Guess what, you aren't killing my buzz by only seeing these bromances as platonic for yourself. And if you see my sexualizing of these bromances as having any effect on you then you're taking other people's fun way too personally.

Surely a "bromance" between two hetro guys, is really just a friendship and is qualitatively different to a sexual relationship, just as a brother sister relationship, is not the same thing as a sexual relationship.

Oranges and apples.

You dont take an orange to the next level, by making it an apple.

Anyone arguing differently, wants to think about how they would feel, seeing a gay character decide they are actually straight, and watching as brokeback mountain actually turns into a romantic comedy with two "reformed" gay cowboys dating and mating strippers in las vegas, bachelor style.

I mean, come on.

Star trek should have LBGT, because its in keeping with the values, and because its extremely likely to exist in the universe we see on star trek. They could even have stories about intollerant klingons and a greek/roman style indifference on vulcan and romulus.

They arent in the business of writing specifically for gay people, to fulfil fantasies about seducing a straight guy friend though!

Theres plenty of fiction for that, im sure.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

You are really missing the point of fandom fun.

This is fiction. People add to fiction by playing around with sexual relationships and/or romances between characters that may or may not have onscreen elements already there. There are no rules. There are no obligations. You can write or muddle around with any paring you like, hetero, straight, hot horta sex whatever. BECAUSE IT IS FUN.

That's what shipping is, slash or otherwise, FUN.

 

[junkdata]

You are really missing the point of fandom fun.

This is fiction. People add to fiction by playing around with sexual relationships and/or romances between characters that may or may not have onscreen elements already there. There are no rules. There are no obligations. You can write or muddle around with any paring you like, hetero, straight, hot horta sex whatever. BECAUSE IT IS FUN.

That's what shipping is, slash or otherwise, FUN.

Of course there are rules. For a start "science fiction", means there are rules. It's not "fantasy fiction". Secondly, the nature of the fiction means there are tenets of that fiction.

If you want to write a "FANtasy fiction" piece on Star Trek, then that's great; but saying "its fiction!!1" so it can't possibly jump the shark or destroy its own congruency and credibility as a work of art and entertainment, is just plain ignorant.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

So you are saying that if I write some fanfiction there are rules that I must follow about who can fuck who?

Where is this god of the fucking, tell me I want to take umbrage with his piss antness.

 

[junkdata]

So you are saying that if I write some fanfiction there are rules that I must follow about who can fuck who?

Where is this god of the fucking, tell me I want to take umbrage with his piss antness.

No. I am saying that if you write fan fiction and its completely incongruous with science fiction or with established star trek characterisation, then dont be surprised if people say its not science fiction or star trek.

I'm trying to see it from your POV, and it seems like you are arguing about artistic license, and I'm arguing about generic classification.

 

[Use of Time]

So you are saying that if I write some fanfiction there are rules that I must follow about who can fuck who?

Where is this god of the fucking, tell me I want to take umbrage with his piss antness.

No. I am saying that if you write fan fiction and its completely incongruous with science fiction or with established star trek characterisation, then dont be surprised if people say its not science fiction or star trek.

It's strange that you are so big on rules considering you are the new guy on the BBS that creates an account and then immediately starts about 50 threads.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

By "people" you mean you, right?

Well pfft.

Hey I bet you like ship pr0n though, not ship as in shipping but actual Enterprises getting it on. Is it Star Trek? Or is it some wild mecha manga wannabe? YOU be the judge (which you are obviously into doing).

 

[junkdata]

So you are saying that if I write some fanfiction there are rules that I must follow about who can fuck who?

Where is this god of the fucking, tell me I want to take umbrage with his piss antness.

No. I am saying that if you write fan fiction and its completely incongruous with science fiction or with established star trek characterisation, then dont be surprised if people say its not science fiction or star trek.

It's strange that you are so big on rules considering you are the new guy on the BBS that creates an account and then immediately starts about 50 threads.

That's weak.

I retort -

Its strange that you think spending a lot more time than me on a small website on the internet, entitles you to expect deference over the entire planet, in the fields of literature and being an ass.

 

[junkdata]

By "people" you mean you, right?

Well pfft.

Hey I bet you like ship pr0n though, not ship as in shipping but actual Enterprises getting it on. Is it Star Trek? Or is it some wild mecha manga wannabe? YOU be the judge (which you are obviously into doing).

Handbags at dawn?

Come on.

Star trek has established characterisation. Lets say I want to turn Kirk into a woman and Uhuru into a dog. And they fly off on a unicorn together.

Is it fiction? Tick.

Is it sci fi? Um...

Is it sill Star Trek? Um....

Dont make me THAT guy. We are arguing about two different things, and your sensitivity is blinding you to this.

Go slap Gandhi. Honestly, if Star trek had a gay captain or something, then thats generically congruent. If you turn Kirk and spock gay, after the fact, just to make yourself satiated then thats autobiographical to you, not a coherent characterisation of them.

Authors who dont believe in criticism are ridiculous.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The entire planet?

 

[Use of Time]

No. I am saying that if you write fan fiction and its completely incongruous with science fiction or with established star trek characterisation, then dont be surprised if people say its not science fiction or star trek.

It's strange that you are so big on rules considering you are the new guy on the BBS that creates an account and then immediately starts about 50 threads.

That's weak.

I retort -

Its strange that you think spending a lot more time than me on a small website on the internet, entitles you to expect deference over the entire planet, in the fields of literature and being an ass.

I am the last person on this BBS who you can call entitled. My posting here is sporadic to say the least. When I joined the BBS I took my time to get the feel of the place and understand the posting atmosphere before I jumped in. It just seemed like common courtesy.

I am not a mod so I will not derail any further. Technically you are not breaking any rules so knock yourself out but if you keep talking to people the way you just responded to me I feel that your time here will be brief. Take that for what it's worth.

Kirk out.

/snaps communicator shut

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

By "people" you mean you, right?

Well pfft.

Hey I bet you like ship pr0n though, not ship as in shipping but actual Enterprises getting it on. Is it Star Trek? Or is it some wild mecha manga wannabe? YOU be the judge (which you are obviously into doing).

Handbags at dawn?

Come on.

Star trek has established characterisation. Lets say I want to turn Kirk into a woman and Uhuru into a dog. And they fly off on a unicorn together.

Is it fiction? Tick.

Is it sci fi? Um...

Is it sill Star Trek? Um....

Dont make me THAT guy. We are arguing about two different things, and your sensitivity is blinding you to this.

Go slap Gandhi. Honestly, if Star trek had a gay captain or something, then thats generically congruent. If you turn Kirk and spock gay, after the fact, just to make yourself satiated then thats autobiographical to you, not a coherent characterisation of them.

Authors who dont believe in criticism are ridiculous.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

You don't get to tell people who write fanfiction that they can't call it Star Trek: Doing It on Risa if seemingly heterosexual characters from the tv series are having same sex relations in their story. NO ONE needs you or anyone else to come along and tell fanfiction writers that they can't use the term "Star Trek" because in their stories the wrong people are gay.

 

[junkdata]

It's strange that you are so big on rules considering you are the new guy on the BBS that creates an account and then immediately starts about 50 threads.

That's weak.

I retort -

Its strange that you think spending a lot more time than me on a small website on the internet, entitles you to expect deference over the entire planet, in the fields of literature and being an ass.

I am the last person on this BBS who you can call entitled. My posting here is sporadic to say the least. When I joined the BBS I took my time to get the feel of the place and understand the posting atmosphere before I jumped in. It just seemed like common courtesy.

I am not a mod so I will not derail any further. Technically you are not breaking any rules so knock yourself out but if you keep talking to people the way you just responded to me I feel that your time here will be brief. Take that for what it's worth.

Kirk out.

/snaps communicator shut

I dont care. You initiated the attack and expected deference from a stranger you just attacked.

If you want to "bully by proxy" with the ban hammer, you should realize this is the internet, and you're not the only one who knows how to "appeal to a proxy", when people want to take the piss like that.

Be nice to people and people will be nice to you.

At the very least they will follow the rules.

Don't create trolls by attacking people you dont know, seeking deference from people youve just attacked, and then hiding behind tenure and threatening people with 100 proxies and alt emails with teh ban hammer.

Play nice.

 

[xavier]

"Turning it into something sexual just ruins it" for YOU.

However you are not the arbiter of ME and how I enjoy my fiction. Nor does my enjoyment of turning bromances into something sexual have any effect at all on your enjoyment of the bromance as a platonic friendship.

Guess what, you aren't killing my buzz by only seeing these bromances as platonic for yourself. And if you see my sexualizing of these bromances as having any effect on you then you're taking other people's fun way too personally.

Well I believe that is why it is called FICTION or to be exact FANFICTION

Notice how whenever a film has a bad script the main criticism is that the scripts reads like a fan fiction and not a script written by professional writers.

I am trying to make clear of the difference between the two.

I am not trying to mess with your pleasure or what turns you on what I am saying is there is a fine line between an actual serious story to tell that soft porn fanfiction written from a fan perspective usually girls

at the oscars fanfictions of a film do not win awards...The original and adapted screen play does.

Have fun with whatever you want but blurring the line between the two would get you very confused.

 

[Use of Time]

That's weak.

I retort -

Its strange that you think spending a lot more time than me on a small website on the internet, entitles you to expect deference over the entire planet, in the fields of literature and being an ass.

I am the last person on this BBS who you can call entitled. My posting here is sporadic to say the least. When I joined the BBS I took my time to get the feel of the place and understand the posting atmosphere before I jumped in. It just seemed like common courtesy.

I am not a mod so I will not derail any further. Technically you are not breaking any rules so knock yourself out but if you keep talking to people the way you just responded to me I feel that your time here will be brief. Take that for what it's worth.

Kirk out.

/snaps communicator shut

I dont care. You initiated the attack and expected deference from a stranger you just attacked.

If you want to "bully by proxy" with the ban hammer, you should realize this is the internet, and you're not the only one who knows how to "appeal to a proxy", when people want to take the piss like that.

Be nice to people and people will be nice to you.

At the very least they will follow the rules.

Don't create trolls by attacking people you dont know, seeking deference from people youve just attacked, and then hiding behind tenure and threatening people with 100 proxies and alt emails with teh ban hammer.

Play nice.

Proxies and alt emails...ban hammers? What the...

Strawman arguing, goalpoast moving...etc.