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Size Of The New Enterprise (large images)

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Once in the ship though where would any matter go? So fill it in Iowa, recycle shit to sandwich, repeat. Same with atmospheric gases. You're gonna lose a couple hundred kilos of meat at a time, nicely wrapped in red packages. Restock as necessary.
 
Once in the ship though where would any matter go? So fill it in Iowa, recycle shit to sandwich, repeat. Same with atmospheric gases. You're gonna lose a couple hundred kilos of meat at a time, nicely wrapped in red packages. Restock as necessary.

The problem is processing time. Plus the need to stock reserves for emergency use. That stuff HAS to be stored somewhere, and virtually NONE of the various plans I've seen ever adequately address the issue of all that storage space.
 
There is NO WAY the new Enterprise is larger than the E. No way. Just look at the bridge window and the size of the people inside compared to the rest of the ship. It's probably slightly larger than the original, but still much smaller than the D or E.
 
Seeing it again, it seems the bridge window the shuttlebay are almost impossible to reconcile on the same scale. I think the manual writers will just have to pick one and fudge some of the other details (my guess is the bridge window, easier to fudge the size there.)
 
I like the bigger sized Enterprise.

:) I think bigger is better, in terms of how the alt-timeline has developed. I have no problem with the size or the design.

The AbramsPrise really is the new flagship of the federation...

:bolian:
 
I was watching Star Trek V the other day (in my defense, it was the Riff Trax version), and I noticed how tiny the shuttlebay looks compared to the new Enterprise's bay. Sure, V didn't exactly have a top notch special FX team as well as other issues of quality, but at least to me (without actually measuring things out), the size of the shuttlebays provide a good scale of comparison, I think.

Of course, someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I've always had problems with space :)
 
WRONG. Neither transporters NOR replicatos operate as you describe. They break down EXISTING matter, manipulate it, and reassemble it.

For the record:
Transporters convert matter into energy (which they can manipulate) and back again.
Replicators are capable of the same process, only it's primarily used when recycling and NOT when people decide to replicate a meal or an object.
Replicators need 2 thins: Energy, and the formula composition of an object a person wants to create ... because the replicators use a pre-existing formula to convert energy into matter by restructuring it as they want to (as previously explained, they can manipulate the energy to this extent) ... clearly established in Voyager and TNG.
Transporters merely work with pre-existing matter (humanoids or objects) which is why they were invented first and replicators second.

This is why replicators have been usually portrayed as types of systems that need a lot of power (which was initially a problem for Voyager, and later on they discovered a way to triple their efficiency and feed 500 people a day using 50% less power compared to what they they were using before ... episode 'Void' btw ... meaning that this would translate into a minute energy use as far as replicators are concerned when the ship exited the void and continued to provide food for measly 150 people).
In TOS ... they had food synthesizers ... those were restructuring for example recycled matter into basic components and restructuring them into a meal.
Oh ... and they had this technology from since the NX-01 (which was roughly 120 years before the TOS events took place).

Holodecks need energy to materialize forcefields and environments ... not pre-existing matter.
Have you been WATCHING the show?

Still doesn't explain WHERE the raw stocks of materials are stored.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but star-ships usually come equipped with relatively large cargo-bays, which are used to store supplies.
And again, their storage techniques and technology is much more efficient and advanced compared to what we can do today.

You can "perceive" it any way you want. The biological fact remains that a human needs x amount of air/day, x amount of water, and x amount of food. If you are depending on your Handwavium Device to produce it "just in time", you are a fool and when your Device breaks down you will either suffocate, freeze, or starve.
You must have smacked your head because in Trek, crews usually maintain their technology and equipment.

Also ... to answer the question of where all the power is coming from.
There is that big glowing object in every engineering section of a star-ship that spans several decks.
It's called the WARP CORE.
Main source of energy for ALL ship systems, although they usually use auxiliary impulse reactors (or maybe even fusion reactors) to power all systems in the absence of the core, or when the core is damaged, being upgraded of simply turned off.

Well documented in the show on screen btw ... doesn't get more canon that that.

Oh one more thing ...
We were able to transport an atom from one location to the other years ago.
It may not be the same feat as transporting people, but at least it proves it can be done at least with non living objects and we are making small steps.

Theories are being done into research of FTL travel, and the concept of food/objects syntezisers is becoming slowly a reality (there was an intel show-reel recently that portrayed on what they are able to do with restructure of matter on a nano scale for example ... and you have printers that are almost a decade old that can create a full 3d object that was constructed in programs such as 3d studio Max and Maya).
It may not be true replicator technology, but we are getting there.

To call Trek technology as 'magic' when some of it has been realized in real life in the 21st century is what I would call 'being in denial'.

But if you want to continue to drone about you perspective, you are perfectly willing to do so.
I'm not going to stop you.
 
I was watching Star Trek V the other day (in my defense, it was the Riff Trax version), and I noticed how tiny the shuttlebay looks compared to the new Enterprise's bay. Sure, V didn't exactly have a top notch special FX team as well as other issues of quality, but at least to me (without actually measuring things out), the size of the shuttlebays provide a good scale of comparison, I think.

Of course, someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I've always had problems with space :)
The Hangar Deck shown as a set in Star Trek V is only about a third as big as it should be to match the established size- watch 'the Motion Picture' for a better way to judge it's dimensions.
Star Trek V just took design elements and squeezed them into the available space in the studio building.
 
Look, this is the show that brought us handheld weapons that can vaporize a human being, and makes up new elements/materials to suit the plot purposes. What was the stuff they were mining in Devil in the Dark? Some sort of energy-producing material with a made-up name. Maybe a pound of it can run a reactor for a week. You'll get nowhere arguing over how large Engineering should be.
 
I was watching Star Trek V the other day (in my defense, it was the Riff Trax version), and I noticed how tiny the shuttlebay looks compared to the new Enterprise's bay. Sure, V didn't exactly have a top notch special FX team as well as other issues of quality, but at least to me (without actually measuring things out), the size of the shuttlebays provide a good scale of comparison, I think.

Of course, someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I've always had problems with space :)
The Hangar Deck shown as a set in Star Trek V is only about a third as big as it should be to match the established size- watch 'the Motion Picture' for a better way to judge it's dimensions.
Star Trek V just took design elements and squeezed them into the available space in the studio building.

Go back a decade further and you'll see a hangar deck about the same size as in The Final Frontier. It's much more in line with TOS. Don't forget, of course, that the ship in TFF is a different ship than the one in TMP.
 
Huge, shuttle bay, storage bay..

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp/themotionpicture0222.jpg

Very small bay- even though a different ship, this partitioned off version does seem notably smaller. It could barely fit four shuttle craft in there if needed.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tff/ch8/thefinalfrontier0599.jpg

Regardless, this has no bearing on the size of the new Enterprise and her shuttle bay... If it's as open as the one in TMP, then I see no problem cramming a shit load of shuttle in there. But that's taking up a tonne of storage.
 
I was watching Star Trek V the other day (in my defense, it was the Riff Trax version), and I noticed how tiny the shuttlebay looks compared to the new Enterprise's bay. Sure, V didn't exactly have a top notch special FX team as well as other issues of quality, but at least to me (without actually measuring things out), the size of the shuttlebays provide a good scale of comparison, I think.

Of course, someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I've always had problems with space :)
The Hangar Deck shown as a set in Star Trek V is only about a third as big as it should be to match the established size- watch 'the Motion Picture' for a better way to judge it's dimensions.
Star Trek V just took design elements and squeezed them into the available space in the studio building.

Go back a decade further and you'll see a hangar deck about the same size as in The Final Frontier. It's much more in line with TOS. Don't forget, of course, that the ship in TFF is a different ship than the one in TMP.

The first views of the Refit Hangar Deck in 'The Motion Picture' are actually very close to TOS in width.
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x06/doomsdaymachine_434.jpg
I knoe Star Trek V had a different ship, but it was externally identical to the original Refit- same model. They did build a close-up section with the tall narrow door section for the scene where the shuttle makes it's approach in the beginning of the film but that section does not remotely match the larger filming model.
 

From the looks of it, you could store 4 of the NuSuttles under the hanger deck of the Refit, with an additional two on the elevators without interfering with the cargo area.

One of the few things rarely noticed, is that there is actually a retractable floor to cover the lower part of the cargo deck. You can see the supports on the sides in this picture: LINK Depending on the mission, you could easily expand the capacity of the hanger deck.

From an engineering/scaling standpoint, the TMP got nearly everything correct. This movie, not so sure about.
 

From the looks of it, you could store 4 of the NuSuttles under the hanger deck of the Refit, with an additional two on the elevators without interfering with the cargo area.

One of the few things rarely noticed, is that there is actually a retractable floor to cover the lower part of the cargo deck. You can see the supports on the sides in this picture: LINK Depending on the mission, you could easily expand the capacity of the hanger deck.

From an engineering/scaling standpoint, the TMP got nearly everything correct. This movie, not so sure about.
Agreed- the Motion Picture Refit was one of the best well thought out functional designs I remember seeing- it looked like engineers came up with it...
 

From the looks of it, you could store 4 of the NuSuttles under the hanger deck of the Refit, with an additional two on the elevators without interfering with the cargo area.

One of the few things rarely noticed, is that there is actually a retractable floor to cover the lower part of the cargo deck. You can see the supports on the sides in this picture: LINK Depending on the mission, you could easily expand the capacity of the hanger deck.

From an engineering/scaling standpoint, the TMP got nearly everything correct. This movie, not so sure about.
Agreed- the Motion Picture Refit was one of the best well thought out functional designs I remember seeing- it looked like engineers came up with it...

I disagree.

From an industrial design/aesthetic POV, yes, the TMP 1701 looked nice.

But from a mechanical engineering perspective, there were a lot of flaws in the TMP Enterprise.

The neck/dorsal was too thin, particularly at the intersections of the saucer and secondary hull.

The warp nacelle pylons were way too flimsy, especialy where they attached to the secondary/engineering hull. The taper should have been reversed, or better yet, there should have been no taper at all for mechanical strength.

The concave surface on the underside of the saucer never made any sense either in TOS or TMP versions.

The JJ-Prise, while not without its issues, fixes all of these problems- mechanically sound dorsal connecting the primary and secondary hulls, no concave surface on the saucer underside, and beefy, mechanically sound pylons holding those voluptuous nacelles ;).

I do take issue with the HUGE scallop/undercut on the rear underside of the secondary hull of the JJ-Prise- don't know the point of removing so much useful internal volume.
 
One thing I don't like about the TMP secondary hull is all that damned empty space. But then again the rec room irked me the same way...
 
Go back a decade further and you'll see a hangar deck about the same size as in The Final Frontier. It's much more in line with TOS. Don't forget, of course, that the ship in TFF is a different ship than the one in TMP.

Moreover, the TFF shuttlebay was based more on Jefferies' TOS design than on the Probert TMP design.
 
From the looks of it, you could store 4 of the NuSuttles under the hanger deck of the Refit, with an additional two on the elevators without interfering with the cargo area.

One of the few things rarely noticed, is that there is actually a retractable floor to cover the lower part of the cargo deck. You can see the supports on the sides in this picture: LINK Depending on the mission, you could easily expand the capacity of the hanger deck.

From an engineering/scaling standpoint, the TMP got nearly everything correct. This movie, not so sure about.
Agreed- the Motion Picture Refit was one of the best well thought out functional designs I remember seeing- it looked like engineers came up with it...


I disagree.

From an industrial design/aesthetic POV, yes, the TMP 1701 looked nice.

But from a mechanical engineering perspective, there were a lot of flaws in the TMP Enterprise.

The neck/dorsal was too thin, particularly at the intersections of the saucer and secondary hull.

The warp nacelle pylons were way too flimsy, especialy where they attached to the secondary/engineering hull. The taper should have been reversed, or better yet, there should have been no taper at all for mechanical strength.

The concave surface on the underside of the saucer never made any sense either in TOS or TMP versions.

The JJ-Prise, while not without its issues, fixes all of these problems- mechanically sound dorsal connecting the primary and secondary hulls, no concave surface on the saucer underside, and beefy, mechanically sound pylons holding those voluptuous nacelles ;).

I do take issue with the HUGE scallop/undercut on the rear underside of the secondary hull of the JJ-Prise- don't know the point of removing so much useful internal volume.

I was primarily addressig the Cargo-Hangar deck arrangement- I anm sorry if I did not make that clear.
Regarding the flimsy connecting pylons- it was GR's original intent to show that materials had advanced to the point the massive connectors were not needed. It does 'weaken' the overall ship some, but without them the ship would not have the grace. Voyager was more consolidated and while nice it does not do anything for me.
 
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