Sisko's parentage

[doctorfoto]

Was Sisko really "part prophet" like people often say?

I was thinking about this the other day and I can't help but wonder. If Sarah Sisko was taken over by a wormhole alien, marries Joseph and gives birth to Ben, then certainly his birth was arranged ...but he would still have two human parents.

[Similarly, if the wraith-possessed Keiko gave birth, it would still be Keiko's baby, and have the genetic qualities of Keiko and Miles - but not the wraith.]

Perhaps this Sarah person had qualities the prophets liked and they basically did the matchmaking to give Sisko the qualities they preferred. But I doubt any notion that Sisko possessed qualities of the prophets - aside from being chosen by him in the first place.

I don't know how the general fanbase feels, but when I occasionally hear people refer to him as "part-prophet" it just doesn't ring true.

 

[Jono]

I'm of the same view as you that Sisko was all human and all the prophet did was to make sure Sarah got knocked up by Joseph. We have never heard that Sisko has anything that unusual with his DNA or any extra abilities.

As for whether is birth was arranged or assured I'm not sure.

 

[happydave]

I've never heard anyone refer to Sisko as 'part prophet'.

I always figured that with the wormhole aliens living outside of time engineered Sisko as they had already met him later in our time and so they had yet to take over Sarah and give birth to Ben. (Though they would later once he had taught them the concept of time and consequence)

 

[Admiral Shran]

The Sarah Prophet was every bit as much Sisko's mother as the human Sarah. If it wasn't for her (the Prophet), Sarah and Joseph would never have been together, and Ben would never have been born. Also, the Prophet stayed with Joseph and helped raise Ben for at least a few months.

Though I agree that Sisko didn't have any special abilities or DNA alterations because of the Prophet inhabiting his mother's body. He was clearly 100% Human, but he was also something more. Maybe he was part-Prophet in a spiritual way, like his soul being a combination of Human and Prophet.

 

[Kai Winn]

well, as beings outside the time, the prophets knew how the story ends, and who would be instrumental, so they went back in what we call time, and made sure the person they need to do the job would be conceived. remember janeway's advice regarding time paradoxes.

 

[JayOwl]

Biologicly Human. But spirtiualy if you like, he was half prophet

 

[Bones2]

Can't we all pretend that plot point didn't exist?

 

[DevilEyes]

Can't we all pretend that plot point didn't exist?

We could try...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think that while Sisko is genetically human, I suspect that he was altered in-utero to give him greater receptivity to the Prophets' energies and communications. He's had abnormal neurological structures and readings that became evident once he got close to Bajor, and I think that this sort of congenital alteration by the Prophet inhabiting Sisko would make sense for their objectives. It is also possible, from what we know about the way things work in the Trekiverse, that certain memories, instincts, and responses were programmed into him by the Prophets, making mentally and spiritually part-Prophet.

 

[snakespeare]

I have never been comfortable with this whole plot device. But I can make up an explanation out of thin air.

Maybe someone altered the timeline to get rid of Sisko, by making Sarah's parents move to Australia instead of staying in New Orleans. Then the wormhole aliens would have to send one being out there to posess Sarah so that she would seek out Joseph and have his baby. Then, not understanding how long it takes to educate a human, the being left Sarah early, and she fled home to her parents.

But frankly, I find the whole concept dubious. In fact, I try not to get caught up in all that prophet talk. I think there is time travel involved. How else could Sisko's name be in ancient Bajoran texts? Or am I confusing the canon with the non-canonical stuff?

 

[doctorfoto]

If you really want to hurt your brain, think about this. The Prophets from Emissary clearly had no idea who Sisko was, what corporeal life forms were, what linear time was, and what physical affection, kissing, or procreation was, until Sisko taught them.

Sarah was sent to Joseph years earlier and must have become familiar with all those concepts. So the Prophets from Emissary were perhaps working a different timeline than the Prophets that sent Sarah. By changing the past, shouldn't the Prophets have changed their ignorance in Emissary? (Although I suppose one could explain that the Prophets were just acting clueless in Emissary for whatever reason)

Also, by arranging Sisko's birth, the Prophets themselves were trying to 'control the game'. Shouldn't THEY be exacted a punishment also?!?

 

[Jono]

^ No, puppetmasters make exceptions for themselves. They just don't like it when their puppets decide to pull their own strings.

For all we know the Sarah Prophet took a 40 year vacation on Tyree after she finished her possessing. I wonder if there was something special about the Sarah Prophet, she did manage to open the wormhole and expel the Pah-Wraith without much effort. That Pah-Wraith had spent 3 months keeping the wormhole closed and not getting expelled by however many Prophets were in the wormhole.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Although I suppose one could explain that the Prophets were just acting clueless in Emissary for whatever reason

That's exactly what they were doing. They couldn't tell him everything right from the start; they needed to coax him along until he finally believed and the time was right.

That's like complaining about how Obi-Wan didn't tell Luke about Qui-Gon Jinn when he appeared as a Force-ghost in "The Empire Strikes Back." I suppose he could have said "You will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me during my years of training before I became a full Padawan learner. After that training a Jedi Master known as Qui-Gon Jinn completed my education. It was Master Qui-Gon that first discovered young Darth Vader, who at that time was known as Anakin Skywalker. Oh, by the way, I suppose I should tell you that he is your father and the Chosen One of the Jedi. Anyway, my second Master is also the one who first discovered the technique of becoming a Force-ghost after death and taught me how to do it through years of training and mediation on Tatoonie while I watched over you from afar. After Qui-Gon's death on the planet of Naboo at the hands of a previous apprentice of the Emperor's, known as Darth Maul, I became a Jedi Knight proper and eventually rose to the Jedi Council, where Master Yoda was my superior."

Or, he could tell Luke just what he needs to know in order to continue his journey towards the destruction of the Sith... "You will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me."

That's the same thing the Prophets are doing in "Emissary." There giving Sisko just what he needs to know at that particular moment in his journey as the Emissary.

Also, by arranging Sisko's birth, the Prophets themselves were trying to 'control the game'. Shouldn't THEY be exacted a punishment also?!?

It's called the double standard. If we measly corporeal, linear humans have to endure it every day, why shouldn't extra-dimensional beings do the same?

 

[doctorfoto]

See, this is the problem when writers try to mess with their own timelines and leave the fans to try to explain it. It leaves nothing but holes and more questions.

And to try to use the Star Wars prequels as a way to make sense of it just makes it worse. Sure, one could speculate that the prophets, like Obi-Wan, were purposely withholding information from Sisko/Luke so that they could figure out their path themselves. Sounds plausible...

...until you get to the inherent problem of what's going on when these characters - supposedly all in the know - are speaking amongst themselves? When Sisko first arrives in the Wormhole, the prophets start arguing "What IS this thing?" "Hey! It's corporeal" "Should we kill it?!?" etc. These types of discussions of the prophets trying to figure out what's going on amongst themselves continue throughout the series.

Similarly, using your Star Wars comparison - sure, you could say Obi-Wan was leading Luke on by withholding what he knew from the prequels from him. Okay, fine - but WHY would Master Obi-Wan, who was present during Luke and Leia's birth, who delivered his twin sister to Bail Organa, who KNEW about the biologic nature of midichlorians and that Luke would inherit his father's force sensitivity, WHY would he tell Yoda - AFTER Luke was gone, and it was just the two of them. "That boy is our last hope" ...only to have Yoda CORRECT a Jedi-ghost who was supposedly "one with the force" and informing him that "Nope. You're wrong. There is another"

Does Obi-Wan then smack his ghost forehead and say "Oh crap! You're totally right! I FORGOT he had that twin sister! I may only be a Force-ghost, but I bet the force is strong with her too!"

It's obvious the failure is not in the non-linear prophets, but in the very linear writers, who in 1993 had no idea what the writers would do with the storyline in 1998. Just like the writers of episodes IV-V-and VI having no idea what Obi-wan knew and didn't know in the prequels.

As for a 'Treksplanation ' of what went down with the prophets - Who says Sarah had returned to the Wormhole immediately after she left Joseph when Sisko was still a baby? Being non-linear, she could have either waited it out on Tyree as it was suggested - or simply returned to a point in time AFTER the events of Emissary and before Image in the Sand. This way the Prophets stay ignorant of linear time, allowing Sisko to still teach them in Emissary while STILL allowing them to manipulate Sisko's birth.

 

[snakespeare]

^ Just because time isn't linear for them doesn't mean they can know the future. They aren't "unstuck" like Billy Pilgrim. They just live in all the time that has been so far. So the Sarah Prophet could easily have left the wormhole AFTER meeting Benjamin Sisko to seek out the human Sarah decades earlier. Which then opens you up to the grandfather paradox. Presumably the wormhole aliens are not bothered by paradoxes.

But yeah, it's making my head hurt!

 

[doctorfoto]

Indeed! I think that time is non-linear within the Wormhole, but the Prophets can choose to travel within the linear time and space of corporeals, although they typically leave them alone - (aside from the Bajorans). In addition, and this is again my own opinion, I believe that the Pagh-wraiths*, since their exile from the Wormhole, are now forced to live in linear time while also trapped in the confined space of the Fire Caves. This would explain why they've been "waiting" for centuries for an opportunity for revenge.

* Yes I know it's spelled wrong, but I spell it that way anyway.

 

[happydave]

This will always be an issue when you're dealing with supernatural godlike beings who have greater powers than we can understand.

Just like no-one really knows how Q can do the things he can.

I guess this is the entire point of the religion storyline. Some will believe, some won't.

I guess it's whether we believe that they can go back and mess with time thus causing Sisko to be born (and I guess the main issue is the paradox)... after they had already met Sisko. Considering they exist 'outside of time', the inference is that they can go back and forth at will and don't have to follow the rules of linear time. (hence Time Travel)

 

[RegFan]

Sisko's DNA is completely human, but the Prophets seem to have a special interest in him, since they made Sisko the Emissary. I think Sisko did get something from the Sarah Prophet, otherwise there would be no point for the Prophets to have a child with a human. The Sarah Prophet left Sarah's body after Benjamin was born and that discounts the possibility of them just wanting to explore beings living in linear time.

 

[indranee]

his soul was of the Prophets.

 

[Admiral Shran]

See, this is the problem when writers try to mess with their own timelines and leave the fans to try to explain it. It leaves nothing but holes and more questions.

The fact that it leaves nothing but holes is what makes Star Trek, as a franchise, great. It allows us to debate, in our own heads and with each other, for hours upon hours in an attempt to fill in the missing pieces. I would hate it if absolutely everything was explained on screen.