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Spoilers Shouldn't the Farragut disaster have happened already?

I don’t remember anything canonical stating that the Farragut was destroyed during the cloud creature encounter. I do remember a long-held non-canonical belief that Kirk commanded a destroyer before the Enterprise, but I can’t recall the exact source for that.

Starfleet Museum? A neat bit of worldbuilding but yea, non-canonical. Kirk is a daring Destroyer Captain in that for the Avenger/Predator page, though I don't like the designs myself, if he was on a Saladin I could see it. (Well, okay, Predator looks good if 'tos'd)

"eNew Destroyers Unleashed
The second component of the escalated resource-denial campaign was military. Unlike the earlier phase of the campaign, which had involved only defensive, surveillance, and reconnaissance activities, the post-treaty campaign involved more aggressive, even warlike, activities designed to prevent the Klingons from both obtaining mineral resources and benefitting from resources already in their possession. Most of these activities were carried out in Klingon-controlled space by Avenger and Predator destroyers. Some aspects of this military campaign can be illustrated through the actions of James T. Kirk, who before his legendary missions aboard the Constitution-class USS Enterprise (NCC-1701), was a daring and creative destroyer captain.

While at Starfleet Academy Kirk was studious and serious but occasionally showed signs of brilliance, as when he reprogrammed a simulator to allow a solution to the Kobayashi Maru exercise. However, his early years as a junior officer were uneventful and suggested, at best, a gradual rise through the ranks along with other members of his cadet class. All that changed in 2257 when Captain Garrovick, the senior officers, and half the crew of USS Farragut (Constitution class, NCC-1711) were killed in an attack by a gaseous lifeform at Tyco IV. Kirk quickly assumed command and piloted Farragut to safety at Starbase 5. Although Kirk blamed himself for the deaths, his decisive actions had attracted the attention of Starfleet Command, which began grooming him for early command of his own starship. While recuperating from injuries sustained aboard Farragut, Kirk spent 6 months at Starfleet's Advanced Tactical School on Izar. Kirk next served for 9 months as executive officer aboard the heavy cruiser USS Tav (Pyotr Velikiy class, NCC-1674) under Captain Matthew Decker. To develop his nonmilitary skills, Kirk was then sent in succession to Starfleet Intelligence in Washington, the Judge Advocate General's Office at Gravenhage (the Hague), the Federation Foreign Service Institute on Vulcan, and the Starfleet Language Academy on Cait.

In February 2260, Kirk was given the command of USS Interceptor (NCC-D243) a Predator-class destroyer assigned to Starfleet Destroyer Squadron 5 (DESRON 5) operating from the destroyer tender USS Siberia (Pachyderm class, NCC-DT22) just outside the Klingon border at Parchuk IX. Although Kirk, at age 27, was the youngest combat-ship captain in Starfleet by several years, he quickly gained the confidence of his crew through his intelligence, decisive command, and daring. For the first few months of his command, USS Interceptor served as the "wingman" of USS Snapper (NCC-D278) under the more-experienced Captain José Dominquez. Interceptor usually stood by to scan for enemy ships and protect Snapper as she went about her more dangerous work.

One mission of Federation destroyers was to maintain an extremely close watch on Klingon ships, both warships and transports, wherever they ranged in supposedly free space. Starfleet intended to clearly indicate to the Klingons that their vessels were not welcome in areas the Federation considered under their control. This shadowing led to several incidents in which Federation and Klingon ships were damaged in collisions with one another. Starfleet destroyers also boarded numerous Klingon cargo ships, passing through free space or within the newly expanded 5-ly territorial limits of the Federation, to conduct lengthy inspections on the grounds of safety or commercial regulations, transport of contraband, and even pursuit of fugitives from Federation law. Klingon ships were usually found to be in violation of obscure, rarely-enforced regulations, such as not keeping records of lifeboat drills, not possessing cargo manifests in Federation-standard English, and unsanitary food preparation areas. The ships were then towed to the nearest starbase and impounded pending payment of hefty fines or forfeiture of their cargoes. Klingon warships were, however, treated much more harshly; if they entered the 5-ly Federation exclusion zone or the territory of a Federation ally, they were immediately fired upon without prior warning.

Destroyer operations during this period have been portrayed in the popular media as "run and gun" operations in which destroyers, according to one best-selling holonovel of the time (Lone Star Ranger by Justice McMillan, Mazeppa Publishing, Rigel V, 2259), "smashed the Klingons in their ridged noses and warped home with a flock of angry Birds of Prey (sic) in hot pursuit." Such popular accounts wrongly suggest that Starfleet destroyer operations were intended to provoke Klingon responses. In fact, destroyers aimed to carry out their missions with extreme stealth and to have safely returned to Federation space before their destructive actions had occurred, much less been detected. The ideal covert operation was one that the Klingons did not realize had been carried out.

In May 2260, Interceptor was "promoted" to the lead ship of a two-ship team with USS Grenadier (NCC-D236). Kirk, often called "The Boy Wonder" because of his youth, was particularly adept at operating in hostile territory without being detected. First, he was skilled at using the interstellar terrain to travel in areas that decreased the risk of sensor contact. He would maneuver his ship through nebulae, subspace lacunae, and solar storms and hide behind asteroids and comets until he passed beyond the scanning range of hostile bases or ships. Second, he used these same hostile ships to mask his own ship's emissions. For example, he often followed in another ship's subspace wake or shadowed at a fixed distance so that his ship's sensor contact would be misinterpreted as a sensor reflection. Third, Kirk worked with his tactical officers and engineers to re-tune the resonance frequency of his warp coils to mimic those of Klingons warships and transports. Finally, Kirk also spoke fairly good Klingonese, which he used to talk his ship out of trouble on more than one occasion. (However, rumors that Kirk once talked a Klingon computer "to death" are probably untrue.)

As a rule, destroyer crews, who served in small numbers upon very fast ships, considered themselves a dashing elite. Befitting their swashbuckling image, destroyer captains were given considerable autonomy to plan and carry out missions in transborder areas. As Kirk grew more bold, he often took his ships a full sector, as much as 20 ly, past the treaty border on missions lasting several weeks. In one particularly audacious mission, he used Interceptor's speed and stealth to evade Klingon defenders near Therik G, then entered the Mosa nebula, where he waited for 3 days for a Klingon automated transport to pass by. He hid beneath this transport for 4 days, then destroyed it as it approached ak-Jom'mak shipyards at Sima IV. He tuned Interceptor's warp coil emissions to mimic those of the destroyed transport, then approached to within 200,000 km to release mines and monitoring devices that entered the shipyard and attached themselves to ships, drydocks, and maintenance vessels. After running at high speed for 4 days, Interceptor hunted targets of opportunity near the Epsilon Lalza system, destroying communications arrays, sensor stations, and M/AM refuelling depots. He next travelled within the subspace wake of a Klingon D6 cruiser for 12 days at wf 5 to take ultrashort-range sensor readings of the large fleet base at Kurrdanj II, then returned to Federation space by shadowing a D7 cruiser as it headed out for a patrol in the former TBZ."
 
I don’t remember anything canonical stating that the Farragut was destroyed during the cloud creature encounter. I do remember a long-held non-canonical belief that Kirk commanded a destroyer before the Enterprise, but I can’t recall the exact source for that.
Try the character biography for Captain Kirk in THE MAKING OF STAR TREK. I have temporarily misplaced my copy so I can't double check it, but I remember wording to the effect that Kirk achieved his first command, the "equivalent of a modern destroyer," while still quite young.

I also think that TMOST is the source of the long-held belief that the Farragut was destroyed despite nothing in the episode stating such, in the paragraph that runs down the final determination of the long-accepted names of the Enterprise's sister ships, but, again, frustratingly, I can't confirm that memory.
 
Try the character biography for Captain Kirk in THE MAKING OF STAR TREK. I have temporarily misplaced my copy so I can't double check it, but I remember wording to the effect that Kirk achieved his first command, the "equivalent of a modern destroyer," while still quite young.

I also think that TMOST is the source of the long-held belief that the Farragut was destroyed despite nothing in the episode stating such, in the paragraph that runs down the final determination of the long-accepted names of the Enterprise's sister ships, but, again, frustratingly, I can't confirm that memory.
Memory-Alpha says both the Making of Star Trek, and TOS Tech Manual said the Farragut was destroyed yeah. No page number citation like their other sources though.

They also say up The Making of.. saying Kirk commanded a destroyer.
 
Memory-Alpha says both the Making of Star Trek, and TOS Tech Manual said the Farragut was destroyed yeah. No page number citation like their other sources though.
The Technical Manual definitely does, it’s on the page listing heavy cruiser ship names (TO:01:04:11). That page also lists the USS Valiant as being destroyed, which is about 30 years too early for it to have been a Constitution class to have been lost at Eminiar VII, so it’s not as exhaustively researched as we would like.
 
Starfleet Museum? A neat bit of worldbuilding but yea, non-canonical. Kirk is a daring Destroyer Captain in that for the Avenger/Predator page, though I don't like the designs myself, if he was on a Saladin I could see it. (Well, okay, Predator looks good if 'tos'd)...

Interesting take. In this thread ( https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/redrawing-kirks-career-timeline.311408/ ) I did a couple versions of Kirk's possible career timeline. This is the second one, which attempted to account for his 'meteoric' rise through the ranks of starfleet. I can't remember the various sources I used for it, although some of them may have even been FASA sources.

Jedi Marso said:
2228- James Kirk is born in Iowa

2245- Kirk enters starfleet academy at the age of 17.

2249- Kirk graduates starfleet academy with honors, and is assigned to USS Republic with the rank of ensign rather than cadet for his graduation cadet cruise.

2250- ENS Kirk meritoriously promoted to Lieutenant J.G. and reassigned to USS Farragut under Captain Garrovick.

2251- LTJG Kirk promoted early to lieutenant.

2254- LT Kirk returns to Starfleet Academy for Command School and ancillary duty as an instructor. During his tenure, he meets Gary Mitchell and also gains some notoriety for cheating the “no-win” scenario.

2255- LT Kirk assigned as first officer of a scout class vessel.

2257- LT Kirk receives early promotion to Lieutenant Commander, assigned as first officer of USS Constitution.

2259- LCDR Kirk assumes command of USS Sacajawea.

2260- LCDR Kirk selected for early promotion to Commander. By this time, Kirk's rise through the ranks is considered meteoric, and he has been recognized as an officer on the fast track to starship command.

2262- CDR Kirk promoted to Captain, and assumes command of USS Lydia Sutherland, with Gary Mitchell as his first officer.

2263- USS Lydia Sutherland destroyed during the Ghioghe Incident. Most of her crew is saved; CAPT Kirk and First Officer Mitchell undergo extensive medical regeneration. CAPT Kirk faces a court of inquiry over the loss of his command, and is cleared of any wrongdoing.

2264: CAPT Kirk offered command of USS Enterprise.

2265: USS Enterprise begins a standard 5-year mission within the UFP Treaty Exploration Zone, and beyond. LCDR Gary Mitchell is lost during an attempt to probe beyond the galaxy's edge. At this point, Kirk has known Gary Mitchell for at least 11 years.

Of course, this doesn't dovetail correctly with the timeline of SNW as it's currently written.
 
I always wondered how the Farragut wasn’t destroyed during the Klingon War. Did it sit out like the Enterprise did. And if it did participate in the war, did the events described in obsession with the loss of 200 crewmen cause that dust cloud happen during the war or after?
 
I always wondered how the Farragut wasn’t destroyed during the Klingon War. Did it sit out like the Enterprise did. And if it did participate in the war, did the events described in obsession with the loss of 200 crewmen cause that dust cloud happen during the war or after?
Why would it have to be destroyed in the war? Were there not ships in the fleet when Discovery returned from the Mirror Universe? Not sure if when it takes place matters. The plot doesn't hinge on that.
 
I always wondered how the Farragut wasn’t destroyed during the Klingon War.

Because it fought back?

Kirk did say that Captain Garrovick was one of the finest men he'd ever known. He was probably very good at his job. I'm sure the Farragut kicked a lot of Klingon butts during the war.

did the events described in obsession with the loss of 200 crewmen cause that dust cloud happen during the war or after?

Most likely after.
 
Why would it have been mentioned? It just seems you’re grasping at straws for something to be different.

People don’t just randomly bring up stuff from a few years ago all of the time no matter how traumatic.

Do we know if he’s been involved in the Tarsus IV disaster? Weird he’s not brought that up.

Do we know if he beat the Kobyashi Maru? No one’s mentioned it.
 
Above it’s referenced that the Farragut is never destroyed in the tie-in material. I believe that it is in the graphic novel Debt of Honor but it’s been sometime since I’ve read that.
 
Okay, putting aside whether or not the Farragut was actually destroyed, has SNW ever implied or stated that the ship's encounter with the cloud creature has already happened, or is it still supposed to be in Kirk's future? Because the feeling I'm getting from SNW is that it hasn't happened yet, which is off from the established timeline. Has there been a mention of Captain Garrovick or anything like that?

At the very least, with half of the ship's crew killed by the cloud creature (including Captain Garrovick), you'd expect the Farragut to be out of commission for a while, with the remaining crew reassigned. That's the real essence of my question here.

You assume too much.

1. There's no reason that SNW should imply anything about the cloud creature. It was completely foreign knowledge to Spock and Bones. If it had been a well-known event, then they just look dumb in that episode.
2. Starfleet keeps their major trauma events secret all the time, when they can. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they do.
3. Pretty sure Farragut's tragedy was actually implied in the "we take a day to remember the fallen" episode.
4. There's no reason for the ship to be out of commission for years or the crew to be reassigned. You're looking for reasons to nitpick. That's not how Starfleet ships operate and it never has been.

Tragedies happen every day in Starfleet. What happened on the Farragut is traumatic for James T. Kirk. But it wasn't a "stop everything and sob everytime the Farragut is mentioned" incident worthy.
 
SPOILERS for the SNW episode "Lost in Translation."

So the latest episode of Strange New Worlds establishes that James T. Kirk becomes the first officer of the Farragut at the rank of Lieutenant, around the same time that Christopher Pike is promoted to Fleet Captain.

But according to Memory Alpha, SNW is currently taking place in 2259. The TOS episode "Obsession," which takes place in 2268, tells us the USS Farragut was destroyed 11 years before, which would put its destruction in 2257, before SNW even begins. So Kirk should most likely be on another assignment. (On my TOS timeline, I have Kirk on an Earthside assignment at this point.)

So is this just a screw up, or are they intentionally changing the timeline for some reason, like when ENT established Zephram Cochrane's disappearance was in 2219 instead of 2117, 150 years before "Metamorphosis"? Any thoughts?
We are never told in the obsession episode that the year is 2268. So no canon violation.
 
I would assume that Kirk’s traumatic survivor’s-guilt experience on the Farragut is exactly where his “don’t let death win; get back in the fight!” drive comes from.
 
If they stick to what TOS said, the incident with the cloud creature would have happened during the War (2257), so being out of commission because of most of its crew being killed may have saved it from combat duty.

In "Errand of Mercy," Kirk talks about his experiences with Klingons in a way that certainly make it sound like he was involved in the war.

"Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organized into vast slave-labor camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed, your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal planet. Infinitely better off."
 
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In "Errand of Mercy," Kirk talks about his experiences with Klingons that certainly make it sound like he was involved in the war.

"Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organized into vast slave-labor camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed, your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal planet. Infinitely better off."

Good spot!
 
I always wondered how long it took to re-crew the Farragut following the Tycho IV disaster. I mean a) you gotta figure out if you want the current First officer to take over as the new C.O. and b) you gotta replace and train 200 new starfleet officers.
 
I always wondered how long it took to re-crew the Farragut following the Tycho IV disaster. I mean a) you gotta figure out if you want the current First officer to take over as the new C.O. and b) you gotta replace and train 200 new starfleet officers.
I think Starfleet has a pretty deep bench. It won't be a ship full of noobs.
 
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