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Shouldn’t Areel Shaw have been disqualified?

Let's be honest...there is very little that is *not* wrong with "Court Martial" from a real world courtroom (and logic) perspective.

Enh . . . . it's not my favorite episode but I think its flaws are frequently overstated. Like more than a few eps with some dodgy plotting, it's saved by a fantastic Shatner performance.

As for the Shaw question, you might see something similar (a prosecutor trying a case against someone with whom they had a past romantic relationship) happen even in the modern world. When this question comes up from time to time, I'm never sure who would hypothetically be pushing for disqualification. If it was Cogley so moving on behalf of Kirk, and Starfleet's legal system was similar to that of the USA in general, the required showing would be an actual present conflict of interest preventing a fair trial. It's a high bar.

The more interesting issue for me is whether *Starfleet* should have allowed Shaw to try the case. However, there's no real suggestion in the episode that she was hampered by her past entanglement.
 
The more interesting issue for me is whether *Starfleet* should have allowed Shaw to try the case. However, there's no real suggestion in the episode that she was hampered by her past entanglement.

As I already mentioned, in a military court, personal conflict of interest would not be considered an adequate reason to decline the assignment. It's the military, so you do what you're ordered to do no matter what you feel about it personally.

(And before anyone brings up that tired "Is Starfleet really a military?" argument, I'd point out that the very phrase "court-martial" literally means it's a military court.)
 
You get a pass for anything if you're named Shaw in Starfleet. They let her great grand nephew Liam command an ex-Borg as first officer despite his obvious hatred of Borg and ex-Borg
 
You get a pass for anything if you're named Shaw in Starfleet. They let her great grand nephew Liam command an ex-Borg as first officer despite his obvious hatred of Borg and ex-Borg

Wait, please tell me the PIC producers didn't posit a relationship between the two Shaws. I'm not a PIC hater; I enjoyed the show. But that would be a bit too much.
 
Wait, please tell me the PIC producers didn't posit a relationship between the two Shaws. I'm not a PIC hater; I enjoyed the show. But that would be a bit too much.
No, I was just joking, as far as I know they're not canonically related. But you know, let's go pitch the idea to Terry Matalas... :lol:
 
As I already mentioned, in a military court, personal conflict of interest would not be considered an adequate reason to decline the assignment. It's the military, so you do what you're ordered to do no matter what you feel about it personally.

(And before anyone brings up that tired "Is Starfleet really a military?" argument, I'd point out that the very phrase "court-martial" literally means it's a military court.)
I mean, Star Trek The Next Generation continues that military tradition, with Picard defending and Riker prosecuting. No personal attachments got in the way of those orders. Even Picard's past relationship with the JAG officer brought it in to question.

Once a lawful order is given it is the junior officer's duty to carry it out to best of their ability.
 
(And before anyone brings up that tired "Is Starfleet really a military?" argument, I'd point out that the very phrase "court-martial" literally means it's a military court.)
The problem is that it was quite an evasive hedge right from the beginning. Then, in 'Peak Performance', Picard explicitly stated, "Starfleet is not a military organization." So, we can infer that was the case all along. What does that leave us with? What it means, I believe, is that Starfleet emulated military organizations to an extent, for the sake of convenience. Full-blown military? No. The philosophies don't perfectly align. It was a blending. I think the fact that we are still debating aspects of the episode today shows that they very successfully exploited the gray area in between.
 
The problem is that it was quite an evasive hedge right from the beginning. Then, in 'Peak Performance', Picard explicitly stated, "Starfleet is not a military organization." So, we can infer that was the case all along.

No, the writers simply put an erroneous statement in Picard's mouth because they misunderstood "military" to mean "combat-oriented." There are military organizations that aren't focused on combat, like the US Coast Guard, or that are only authorized to use force defensively, like the Japan Self-Defense Force. Starfleet is an armed force with a hierarchical rank structure, uniforms, and courts-martial. It is the primary organization responsible for the security and defense of the Federation. There is no valid way to define that as anything but a military.

Roddenberry was a military veteran and made TOS with that mentality, basing it very much on the US Navy and the British Royal Navy. It was hardly a hedge "from the beginning"; Kirk explicitly called himself a soldier in "Errand of Mercy," and McCoy called him one in "Metamorphosis" (though as a space navy captain, "sailor" might have been more accurate). In "Obsession," Kirk asked Ensign Garrovick for his "military appraisal" of the defensive measures against the cloud creature. In "Whom Gods Destroy," Garth of Izar called Kirk the second-best "military commander" in the galaxy, and though Kirk said he was "primarily an explorer now," that "now" pretty much confirms that he was a warrior in the past.

But by TNG, Roddenberry had come to think of himself as a philosopher of peace and enlightenment, and he wanted to downplay the military elements he himself had built into TOS in the first place. So he portrayed the E-D as a research vessel with a large civilian complement. But he wasn't willing to commit all the way to that change, so he kept the ranks and uniforms and weapons and pretended that being less military somehow constituted being not military.

Granted, references like the one in "Whom Gods Destroy," and McCoy's line in "Metamorphosis" about Kirk being a soldier so often that he sometimes forgets he's also a diplomat, suggest a definition of the word "military" as referring specifically to the combat side of Starfleet's duties. So we're dealing with a case of a word that's used two different ways. Starfleet is unambiguously a military, as a noun -- a hierarchically organized armed force responsible for the defense of its nation. But only some of its responsibilities are "military" as an adjective, in the sense of focused on combat and defense as opposed to science, diplomacy, and other responsibilities. So that suggests a possible reconciliation of Picard's line -- he wasn't saying Starfleet wasn't a military as a noun, but saying its primary focus in the 24th century was not "military" as an adjective in the sense defined above.
 
That can also be seen as Picard's opinion about Starfleet. Considering he already has quite the body count from incidents protecting the Federation. Maybe it helps him sleep better at night?

No, the writers simply put an erroneous statement in Picard's mouth because they misunderstood "military" to mean "combat-oriented." There are military organizations that aren't focused on combat, like the US Coast Guard, or that are only authorized to use force defensively, like the Japan Self-Defense Force. Starfleet is an armed force with a hierarchical rank structure, uniforms, and courts-martial. It is the primary organization responsible for the security and defense of the Federation. There is no valid way to define that as anything but a military.

Roddenberry was a military veteran and made TOS with that mentality, basing it very much on the US Navy and the British Royal Navy. It was hardly a hedge "from the beginning"; Kirk explicitly called himself a soldier in "Errand of Mercy," and McCoy called him one in "Metamorphosis" (though as a space navy captain, "sailor" might have been more accurate). In "Obsession," Kirk asked Ensign Garrovick for his "military appraisal" of the defensive measures against the cloud creature. In "Whom Gods Destroy," Garth of Izar called Kirk the second-best "military commander" in the galaxy, and though Kirk said he was "primarily an explorer now," that "now" pretty much confirms that he was a warrior in the past.

But by TNG, Roddenberry had come to think of himself as a philosopher of peace and enlightenment, and he wanted to downplay the military elements he himself had built into TOS in the first place. So he portrayed the E-D as a research vessel with a large civilian complement. But he wasn't willing to commit all the way to that change, so he kept the ranks and uniforms and weapons and pretended that being less military somehow constituted being not military.

Granted, references like the one in "Whom Gods Destroy," and McCoy's line in "Metamorphosis" about Kirk being a soldier so often that he sometimes forgets he's also a diplomat, suggest a definition of the word "military" as referring specifically to the combat side of Starfleet's duties. So we're dealing with a case of a word that's used two different ways. Starfleet is unambiguously a military, as a noun -- a hierarchically organized armed force responsible for the defense of its nation. But only some of its responsibilities are "military" as an adjective, in the sense of focused on combat and defense as opposed to science, diplomacy, and other responsibilities. So that suggests a possible reconciliation of Picard's line -- he wasn't saying Starfleet wasn't a military as a noun, but saying its primary focus in the 24th century was not "military" as an adjective in the sense defined above.
Gene Roddenberry's original 1967 writer's guide explicitly stated that Starfleet was not a military organization. It was primarily a scientific, research, and diplomatic body with some military responsibilities for defense.
Key points from the original writer's guide:
  • Primary Purpose: The main mission was scientific exploration and expanding human knowledge.
  • Organizational Model: The structure, ranks, and terminology (like "sir" or naval terms) were adopted from naval traditions to provide a familiar and efficient command structure for operating a vessel, similar to how civilian airliners or the Coast Guard might use hierarchical structures, not because it was a war-fighting force.
 
Gene Roddenberry's original 1967 writer's guide explicitly stated that Starfleet was not a military organization. It was primarily a scientific, research, and diplomatic body with some military responsibilities for defense.
Key points from the original writer's guide:
  • Primary Purpose: The main mission was scientific exploration and expanding human knowledge.
  • Organizational Model: The structure, ranks, and terminology (like "sir" or naval terms) were adopted from naval traditions to provide a familiar and efficient command structure for operating a vessel, similar to how civilian airliners or the Coast Guard might use hierarchical structures, not because it was a war-fighting force.

Now, go watch the show. It is clear that Starfleet was the military arm of the UFP.
 
Gene Roddenberry's original 1967 writer's guide explicitly stated that Starfleet was not a military organization. It was primarily a scientific, research, and diplomatic body with some military responsibilities for defense.
Key points from the original writer's guide:
  • Primary Purpose: The main mission was scientific exploration and expanding human knowledge.
  • Organizational Model: The structure, ranks, and terminology (like "sir" or naval terms) were adopted from naval traditions to provide a familiar and efficient command structure for operating a vessel, similar to how civilian airliners or the Coast Guard might use hierarchical structures, not because it was a war-fighting force.

Again, though, that makes the mistake of assuming that something is only a military if its primary mission is to wage war. That is an incorrect understanding of the word. Just ask the Coast Guard.
 
Again, though, that makes the mistake of assuming that something is only a military if its primary mission is to wage war. That is an incorrect understanding of the word. Just ask the Coast Guard.
I think of it this way: If someone has to use more drastic methods than they prefer, in order to put a stop to bullying, and they have to do it fairly often, it may come to seem like they are a violent person, but they are acting out of necessity. That's a case where they maintain their inner core of having a peaceful nature, but external appearances can be deceiving. Fair analogy?
 
I think of it this way: If someone has to use more drastic methods than they prefer, in order to put a stop to bullying, and they have to do it fairly often, it may come to seem like they are a violent person, but they are acting out of necessity. That's a case where they maintain their inner core of having a peaceful nature, but external appearances can be deceiving. Fair analogy?

I honestly don't think an organization can be part time military and turn it on and off on a moment's notice.
 
That can also be seen as Picard's opinion about Starfleet. Considering he already has quite the body count from incidents protecting the Federation. Maybe it helps him sleep better at night?
Epsecially since in "Angel One" Picard states the ENTERPRISE is responding to a Romulan Battlecruiser as "insurance." Rather odd to do if not a show of military force.
 
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