And no other organization is ever asked to perform that duty.
Shouldn’t Areel Shaw have been disqualified?
- Thread starter FredH
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I just don't understand why 'military' is a dirty word for Star Trek fans. It is just an instrument, how it is used determines whether it is a good thing or a bad thing.
It seems to me that it's a matter of adopting a persona and using necessary tactics as situations demand; what you are forced to do doesn't define who you are.
I am reminded of what Spock said, at the end of 'Mirror, Mirror': It was easier for you, as civilized men, to act like barbarians, than it was for your counterparts, as barbarians, to act like civilized men.
Not sure what this has to do with whether or not Starfleet is the military? The quality/morality of your military is going to come down to the type of people you recruit. The average 23rd century Starfleet member grew up in entirely different circumstances than most people who have become soldiers in the history of planet Earth.
Militias often are. And the others are definitely just as front line as the active duty. Talk to all the Reservists that served in Desert Storm (my older brother was called up for that one), Iraq and Afghanistan.
Me, I think that Starfleet can be just like my Galaxy. Technically a phone but so multi-purposed that it's really something different, and the military role, like my Galaxy's telephony, only comes to the fore when required. Functionally, based on my usage, it acts as a camera, pager (texting), music player and Internet device a lot more.
That is the US military. It has a lot of roles beyond fighting wars. Starfleet has a lot of roles, but when the rubber hits the road, they are the military. When combat is required, no other function becomes more important than its ability to protect those they've sworn to protect.
You can't just walk out of a war and say you don't want to participate anymore. SEE: "The Siege of AR-558" (DS9). Then there's the fact that they move around on ships that are floating WMD platforms.
Honestly, they should get rid of the term "court martial" if they are not a military. Imagine going in to a employer for disciplinary action and demand a "court martial." "Fireproof, that's absurd! I'm not in the military."
Exactly.
IMO, this is both absolutely true... and essentially irrelevant.
As others have noted it is perfectly possible to be culturally, procedurally and even operationally "non-military" for everyday purposes, but if you are legally authorised to conduct armed expeditionary operations (particularly into another sovereign territory like Cardassia) then you are legally a military organisation regardless of what else you might be.
The necessity of wearing many hats does not mean that if someone sees you wearing a particular one fairly often that it's your primary or your favorite; it's just a hat that you wear when circumstances demand.
The necessity of wearing many hats does not mean that if someone sees you wearing a particular one fairly often that it's your primary or your favorite; it's just a hat that you wear when circumstances demand.
Almost like Starfleet is lying to recruits. You're promised all these great things, and oh, you might have to pick up a phaser once in a blue moon. Then you get in the door and Starfleet is engaged in like 19 wars.
Don't the police do that all the time?
Yeah. A good chunk of them love getting new toys and cosplaying as soldiers.Depends? American police?
Some police forces might act as a de facto military force for defensive purposes but only within the domestic airspace/littoral zone, once you are authorised to conduct offensive operations outside of that zone then you're entering the "military" space not "law enforcement".
That's exactly my point.
Yes you can! We do it now. You just explained for me.
Arguably same could be said for Measure of a Man that Picard and Captain Louvois' previous relationship (both personal and professional) should have meant she could not be involved - real world you are bang on but it creates tension and emotion for plot so "yay TV"
None of that has anything remotely to do with the literal definition of the word "military." The word is not about what the organization does, it's about what the organization is. The Coast Guard is a military even though its missions are security, rescue, and law enforcement rather than combat. Shamrock Holmes has it exactly right: a peacetime military is still a military, even if it never fires a shot.
And there's your answer right there: "Yes, but only semi-military in practice -- omitting features which are heavily authoritarian." That's exactly what I'm saying. It is a military by nature -- the writers themselves explicitly answered "Yes" to that yes/no question -- but it's a more relaxed one by practice.
But there are militaries that are required to be purely defensive, like the Japan Self Defense Force. So not going on the offensive does not mean that something isn't a military.
I already covered this -- that only applies to civilian courts, not military ones. And I determined that specifically with regard to Louvois and the Stargazer court-martial for my 2006 novel The Buried Age, which depicts it.
I find it safest to do absolutely no legal analysis of "Measure of a Man."
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Police forces who don't have a legal mandate to do so as part of their "charter" (For example 14 U.S.C. § 101 and 10 U.S.C. § 101(a)(4) for the USCG) would be doing so illegally.
OTOH, it's quite clear that Starfleet can and does legally do so.
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