Should TMP be ignored?

[Commishsleer]

TMP could be ignored. You may even be better off. Is it something like 12 years after the 5 year mission end. Could have had two more 5 year missions after that. Kirk is now an Admiral and Spock and the others are teachers at the Academy. Makes sense to me.
I think you could jump in at TWOK and be OK as far as canon is concerned.
Do we really want to though? I'd much rather get rid of something like 'Generations'.

I think the discrepancies are so minor between TMP and TWOK that you could have them both.
For all I think TMP is boring in places, the stuff thats not graphics or models is a great grand story.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Do we really want to though? I'd much rather get rid of something like 'Generations'.

In my mind, Generations is already gone! In fact, I pretend that the TNG films were all Picard's bad dream after getting really drunk from playing poker at the end of All Good Things.

But for this thread, I was postulating if ST II-VI could work without TMP ever having occurred. Like you, I think they can, and I think it works better from the perspective of an overarching story of mid-life crises and aging (which really is what they are).

 

[Timewalker]

In fact, I pretend that the TNG films were all Picard's bad dream after getting really drunk from playing poker at the end of All Good Things.

Those must be really potent poker chips and cards, if they can make people drunk!

I rather think that any drinking done at those games would have been with synthehol, which supposedly gives the taste of alcohol, but doesn't make people drunk.

That said, I do agree that the TNG movies were like somebody bad dream. Shame that such a likable character as Lily had to be wasted in them.

 

[publiusr]

TMP made you think they had post TNG type tech. The refit was really supposed to be the ultimate Enterprise.

--which it is.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Of all the things in Trek to ignore TMP is one of the last things to be left out of the canon.

 

[Vger23]

Of all the things in Trek to ignore TMP is one of the last things to be left out of the canon.

I would ignore every spin-off series in their entirety before I'd ignore TMP.

 

[Greg Cox]

TMP is not my favorite Trek film, but it's crucial to Spock's character arc. TMP is where Spock finally makes peace with his human emotion, which informs Nimoy's playing of the character in all of his subsequent appearances..

Plus, in general, I find the idea of "excommunicating" a movie or TV episode kinda silly, particularly at this late date when the TOS movie series is no longer a going concern. A how would that work anyway? Would the Department of Canon revoke its certification? Would TMP be withdrawn from all boxed sets of the movies, or simply reissued with a warning label attached?

There was a STAR TREK movie in 1978. We all saw it. It's part of the series.

 

[Galileo7]

TMP is not my favorite Trek film, but it's crucial to Spock's character arc. TMP is where Spock finally makes peace with his human emotion, which informs Nimoy's playing of the character in all of his subsequent appearances..

Plus, in general, I find the idea of "excommunicating" a movie or TV episode kinda silly, particularly at this late date when the TOS movie series is no longer a going concern. A how would that work anyway? Would the Department of Canon revoke its certification? Would TMP be withdrawn from all boxed sets of the movies, or simply reissued with a warning label attached?

There was a STAR TREK movie in 1978. We all saw it. It's part of the series.

1979

 

[Transzendor]

TMP is not my favorite Trek film, but it's crucial to Spock's character arc. TMP is where Spock finally makes peace with his human emotion, which informs Nimoy's playing of the character in all of his subsequent appearances..

Spock's "I have no ego to bruise" line in TWOK suggests the opposite.

 

[Timewalker]

Spock's "I have no ego to bruise" line in TWOK suggests the opposite.

Nope. Spock's line indicates that he understands Kirk's human emotions, and that he's content for Kirk to step into the Captain's chair and won't be resentful that Kirk will have usurped Spock's place.

The post-V'ger encounter Spock is much less by-the-book and much more flexible than he was before.

 

[Commishsleer]

Nope. Spock's line indicates that he understands Kirk's human emotions, and that he's content for Kirk to step into the Captain's chair and won't be resentful that Kirk will have usurped Spock's place.

The post-V'ger encounter Spock is much less by-the-book and much more flexible than he was before.

I agree although Spock would have given up the ship's command to Kirk in TOS too.

If there is a discrepancy in TOS films, I think its more significant between 5 and 6. At the end of 5 Kirk and crew were drinking at a party with Klingons. Sulu and Chekov following around that hot Klingon chick. By 6 Kirk was hating all Klingons and the crew couldn't stand the smell of them.

 

[Timewalker]

I agree although Spock would have given up the ship's command to Kirk in TOS too.

But Spock was never a captain in TOS.

If there is a discrepancy in TOS films, I think its more significant between 5 and 6. At the end of 5 Kirk and crew were drinking at a party with Klingons. Sulu and Chekov following around that hot Klingon chick. By 6 Kirk was hating all Klingons and the crew couldn't stand the smell of them.

The fifth movie had most of the crew acting like buffoons. Kirk's hatred in the sixth movie was entirely in character by that point. What I didn't like was the rest of the crew's open bigotry.

 

[Galileo7]

But Spock was never a captain in TOS.


The fifth movie had most of the crew acting like buffoons. Kirk's hatred in the sixth movie was entirely in character by that point. What I didn't like was the rest of the crew's open bigotry.

Agree. The Klingon hating in TUC fits right after the events of SFS/TVH with the death of Kirk's son David by the Klingons. TFF does detour and the Klingon interaction fits after TUC, not before.

 

[Phoenix219]

Agree. The Klingon hating in TUC fits right after the events of SFS/TVH with the death of Kirk's son David by the Klingons. TFF does detour and the Klingon interaction fits after TUC, not before.

Too bad the movies *aren't* reversed. If you take out Scotty's vague references to the end of Star Trek IV, and take into consideration Uhura's grey hair, it almost makes more sense. that they all retire in Undiscovered Country, and are enjoying *post* retirement fun at Yosemite, when they are called back for one last mission with the skeleten crew and the half broken, being decomissioned ship.

The only thing that truly throws off this thought is Sulu's presence in TFF.

 

[Timewalker]

The only part of STVI I really did like was that Sulu finally got his own ship.

 

[Nebusj]

Of all the things in Trek to ignore TMP is one of the last things to be left out of the canon.

I can't figure what problem would be solved by dropping The Motion Picture from the canon. I get, like, pretending that Voyager where warp ten turns you into a lizard didn't happen saves people embarrassment, and passing over mentions of how the Klingons joined the Federation early in Next Generation lets some better stories make sense. But skipping The Motion Picture would let us ... uh ... reduce by one the number of different uniforms we know were worn in the 23rd century? This is something worth doing?

 

[WarpFactorZ]

OK, ignore ST:V too. I'm down with that. The post TOS story is TWOK, TSFS, TVH, and TUC.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

TMP is my favorite ST film, so no way am I going along with this!

 

[Timewalker]

OK, ignore ST:V too. I'm down with that. The post TOS story is TWOK, TSFS, TVH, and TUC.

And TAS. Except the bad ones.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You could probably enjoy any of the Trek movies stand-alone, ignoring all 12 others. Even the ones that are follow-ups or sequels explain everything you need to know.

Thus I decree that Star Trek IV is the only movie that counts.