Is it that you think that Kirk and Mitchell met for the first time at the academy?
Mitchell's supposed age and the fifteen year thing makes me think that they met prior to Mitchell entering the academy.
Should TMP be ignored?
- Thread starter WarpFactorZ
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Mitchell's supposed age and the fifteen year thing makes me think that they met prior to Mitchell entering the academy.
Agreed! I have Kirk turning 49 in TWOK for the same reasons, which pushes his birth year to 2234 on my timeline.
The way I resolved that is that I have Kirk & Mitchell as contemporaries who go to the Academy together, but Kirk becomes an instructor later, teaching and going to Command School at the same time, shortly after the Farragut incident. It struck me that Kirk would likely return to Earth for a bit after licking his wounds and second guessing himself after such a devastating loss. The timeline of his romance with Carol Marcus also worked a LOT better after I made this change.
I have them at 4 years apart, or rough contemporaries. I'm convinced that they just missed each other at the Academy, though. For one thing, Kirk had Dr. John Gill as his history instructor at the Academy while Spock only studied from the text Gill prepared. So at the very least, they weren't in the same history class.
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Or option three, TMP takes place in 2278 (ish) and there is not that much time between it and TWOK. Kirks is an admiral the whole time between the films and Spock commands Enterprise.
It is an old ship refitted with new tech; perfect for training cadets to use that tech as all future ships will be based on it.
Wouldn't it make more sense for Kirk to be turning 50 in TWOK? Seeing as his birthday is a central point of angst for him, this milestone would be appropriate. That would put his birth in 2233, consistent with ST09.
Given the huge deal that was made about the refit in TMP, throwing it to the academy as a training ship not long after doesn't make a bit of sense. It's supposed to be old and beyond its usefulness, just like Kirk in the film.
My theory is that Constitution refit was a testbed for new technology, Mirandas and Constellations were the new classes built using that technology. That's why those two are still in service in 24th century, while Connies aren't.
Besides, it is really not reasonable to train the cadets to use outdated tech. When they get on their first assignment on a Miranda or an Excelsior, they would be confused because there wouldn't be any jellybean buttons anywhere.
The script has him turning 49. The exact age was cut from the film at William Shatner's request. And you don't necessarily have a midlife crisis according to an exact timetable. I remember I got more depressed about turning 28 than I did about turning 30 because I was now in my late 20s and 30 was right around the corner. Kirk being 49 also puts him at exactly 15 years older than 34, which was his age given in "The Deadly Years."
And I don't believe in having subsequent productions like ST09 determine dates for TOS unless there's no other data to work from. Especially since they only used 2233 to be consistent with the Okuda Chronology.
It's just Star Trek.
Things don't always match up from episode to episode, and movie to movie. That's the way it's always been, and the way it will always be.
You'll all be much happier and have much better, more productive lives when you all understand and accept that simple fact.
But since that won't ever happen, carry on. LLAP.
Things don't always match up from episode to episode, and movie to movie. That's the way it's always been, and the way it will always be.
You'll all be much happier and have much better, more productive lives when you all understand and accept that simple fact.
But since that won't ever happen, carry on. LLAP.
I have absolutely no problem accepting that fact. But I also find it a fun creative exercise to try to get it all to fit and to come up with plausible explanations for the things that don't fit. YMMV.It's just Star Trek.
Things don't always match up from episode to episode, and movie to movie. That's the way it's always been, and the way it will always be.
You'll all be much happier and have much better, more productive lives when you all understand and accept that simple fact.
But since that won't ever happen, carry on. LLAP.
A simple answer to that would be that she is not a "training vessel," she is an otherwise active vessel being used for training.
So they ditched the entire crew for two weeks?
Shore leave.
I tend to think the Enterprise was a training vessel, and probably had been for sometime. It was due to be retired.
I've seen TMP a number of times, starting with two visits to the big-screen Fox theater in center city Philadelphia (torn down in 1980). I own the DE DVD as well.
It's incredibly easy to resist. [However, one scene from it - the Enterprise leaving drydock - I do find irresistible, although only in its TWoK guise (accompanied by James Horner's "Enterprise Clears Moorings").]
With respect to the "training ship" conundrum... As has been argued here before: If you take the view that the Enterprise seen in TWoK is simply the old TV enterprise from "15 years ago" presented at higher resolution (which, of course, includes the heretofore unseen second turbolift doors on the bridge), then it cannot have been the refit ship that's not even had a shakedown cruise in TMP; they just look the same. In other words, ignore TMP and all else fits into place: the use of the ship as a training vessel in TWoK, the two-weeks-older Enterprise in TSFS being sufficiently old to be decommissioned rather than repaired, Kirk starting the story at a desk job, etc.
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Frankly, this is just crazy. It is crazy to ignore one of the best films in the franchise due some imagined inconsistencies.
Enterprise is a training vessel because it is an old ship with new tech. Perfect for training cadets.
It will be decommissioned because it is old and took hell of a beating.
Kirk is still in the desk job in the beginning of TWOK, because him taking command in TMP was just a temporary thing.
Its an interesting mental excercise, at least - an alternate universe, where instead of the Monster Maroons, we get further refinements (and tones) to the TMP uniforms; Aesthetically, things can go in any direction. We get Kirk remaining a Captain and continuing the missions indefinitely, with a wide open future and universe to reimagine in - the true Phase II missions coming after TMP; Khan could have survived and flourished as envisioned at the end of Space Seed... a whole new direction and timeline ripe for exploration. I can dig it.
Although, now it makes me want to see all of the events of Wrath of Khan done on the TOS bridge.... since its the same old ship....
God, if the crackdown on fan films wasn't under way, how amazing would it be to see the STC crew replicate TWOK, line for line, with TOS aesthetics throughout?!?!
Although, now it makes me want to see all of the events of Wrath of Khan done on the TOS bridge.... since its the same old ship....
God, if the crackdown on fan films wasn't under way, how amazing would it be to see the STC crew replicate TWOK, line for line, with TOS aesthetics throughout?!?!
I don't think the entire crew is gone. If you go by uniforms, there seems to be a fair amount of "regular" uniforms and colors about. McCoy says it would be easier to put an experienced crew aboard, but that could mean an entire crew, not a part-experienced, part-trainee crew.
As for what to do with the rest of the assigned crew, the US Navy used to send as many of them as needed to temporary duty elsewhere to make room for midshipmen on training cruises.
https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/ca133-49/index.html
https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv33-47/index.html
https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv15-472/index_001.htm
Well, according to dialogue in TMP, "This is an almost totally new Enterprise." Not merely the old ship with new tech.
Does anyone else here really think that Kirk would have gone back to a desk job, willingly or otherwise, once Vger was dealt with? To me it's plainly obvious that if TMP had been the big hit Paramount hoped for, Kirk would have remained in command for a sequel. Surely the final scene of TMP suggests nothing other than that the crew would go on to other missions, after a shakedown. Who in Starfleet, after Kirk and crew save the entire planet, wouldn't gladly give Kirk command on a permanent basis, especially since Captain Decker isn't available any longer?
I simply consider TMP to be an alternative-universe adventure, hence I don't have to concern myself with trying to justify incompatible timelines.
That may have been true at the time of TMP. But by TWOK, who knows?
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