Should TMP be ignored?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by WarpFactorZ, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. Ensign_Rowan_McGrath

    Ensign_Rowan_McGrath Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    No, they were more or less just born when their parents moved to Deneva with Peter and so stayed on Earth with their grandparents until they reached the six months old and could go on to their parents.
     
  2. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    And someone else command the Enterprise. Never!
    Just can't see it happening.
    And Picard had the same gang for 7 years or more didn't he? And Pike had command of the Enterprise for at least 13 years.
    But you're right anything could have happened. I've read some novels set in a post-TMP 5YM but they're not canon either.
     
  3. Longinus

    Longinus Commodore Commodore

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    Spock. Spock was the captain of the Enterprise during TWOK, we get no indication how long he has been in command, it could be since shortly after TMP.
     
  4. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Spock doesn't count. He's one of Kirk boyz. He can't wait to give Kirk back command.
    He's just minding the Enterprise until Kirk comes to his senses. IMO.
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

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    Pretty much.
     
  6. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't believe that's quite what we know from on-screen information.
     
  7. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    It depends on how many years into Kirk's 5YM "The Menagerie" takes place. Pike was captain thirteen years prior, and Kirk took over the enterprise directly from Pike.

    Kor
     
  8. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Well, Spock served with Pike 11 years (4 months, 5 days). The Menagerie takes place 13 years after The Cage.

    Assuming Spock is fairly new to the Enterprise (I'm putting him at about 20 based on Yesteryear being 3 years after The Menagerie) then that puts the end of Spock serving with Pike at most at around 2-3 years before The Menagerie.

    That would jibe with Kirk taking the Enterprise and having been her CO for a little while before WNMHGB. The unaired opening narration to WNM indicates that they had been performing other routine duties before attempting to leave the galaxy.

    But Pike was captain of some sort for long enough that he wanted to quit by The Cage. If we guess that that couldn't have been right when he took command of the Enterprise, then we at least know that he was captain for well over 11 or 12 years. 13 is as likely as 16 at that point.

    Hunter was around 38 when he made The Cage. There is lore that Kirk was the youngest starship captain. So if we figure Pike is around the same age as Hunter then Pike would have been a captain no earlier than 32ish? So the longest he could have been captain of the Enterprise would be 17 years? Using some significant WAGs, of course.

    What does the "official" timeline say?

    (Lotta math in this thread.)
     
  9. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agreed on those facts. But what information do we have that Pike (and Spock) served all that time on the Enterprise, as opposed to (say) being transferred over to the Bradbury and then back again?
     
  10. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Are you suggesting it could be that Pike was promoted to admiral and after 2.5 years felt restless and got himself demoted back to captain? ;)
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

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    Looking at the times mentioned. Spock serving with Pike for 11 years, 4 months and 5 days. The Cage taking place 13 years ago. And Kirk taking command directly from Pike. Would that mean Kirk had been in command of the Enterprise for 1 year, 7 months and 26 days at the time of The Menagerie?
     
  12. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    According to the final draft script of "Court Martial," Kirk was 19 months into his five-year mission at the time of that episode, which was right before "The Menagerie" in production order:
     
  13. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    That dialog didn't make it into the episode, though.

    This is how it aired, according to http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/15.htm:

    STONE: Stop recording. Now, look, Jim. Not one man in a million could do what you and I have done. Command a starship. A hundred decisions a day, hundreds of lives staked on you making every one of them right. You're played out, Jim. Exhausted.​
     
  14. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The most important unansawered question is... If TMP never happened, then what the hell are all of the events that bridge the end of TOS and TWOK???? Every single character has an open empty narrative, that eventually brings them back to "Any chance to go on board the Enterprise..." as a rare comment.
     
  15. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes. I just wanted to trick someone else into saying it first, so I looked innocent in this deviltry.
     
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  16. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I know. I just thought it was interesting to note.
     
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  17. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Happy to help.

    It certainly shows the mindset of the writers that the ship hadn't just begun its mission when the show started.

    BTW, when we saw TWOK on Sunday I heard many people muttering "Hey! I thought he was going to be captain again after the last movie! This makes no sense!"

    ....

    Ok, I made that last part up.
     
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  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why should they need to be Sam's kids? Kirk never specified whether he had sisters.

    Or another brother, even. Our heroes really don't like to talk about their families.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    From "What Are Little Girls Made Of?":
     
  20. Ensign_Rowan_McGrath

    Ensign_Rowan_McGrath Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    In the end, he got transferred to Deneva with his wife and one of his sons (likely the oldest).