Well, great. Neither did I.
Should TMP be ignored?
- Thread starter WarpFactorZ
- Start date
Well, great. Neither did I.
For all we argue, neither side really has anything concrete to go on about Kirk post-TMP.
I just think it is really unimaginative that he commanded another five-year mission with the same old gang. So I go with he was off commanding a Starbase or something similar. Scott returns to Earth to help update the rest of the fleet. McCoy and Spock teach at the Academy. The rest take off in different directions.
I just think it is really unimaginative that he commanded another five-year mission with the same old gang. So I go with he was off commanding a Starbase or something similar. Scott returns to Earth to help update the rest of the fleet. McCoy and Spock teach at the Academy. The rest take off in different directions.
I never thought Kirk did another 5-year mission as captain of the Enterprise between TMP and TWOK. Not once; it's absurd.
Sure, they could have had some adventures going "thataway," that might have lasted weeks or a few months. But once things were wrapped up and the galaxy was saved again, Nogura would have come calling over subspace radio for Kirk to get his ass back to Earth and get his admiral stripes back on. "Playtime's over, Admiral."
Sure, they could have had some adventures going "thataway," that might have lasted weeks or a few months. But once things were wrapped up and the galaxy was saved again, Nogura would have come calling over subspace radio for Kirk to get his ass back to Earth and get his admiral stripes back on. "Playtime's over, Admiral."
Here's the thing: KHAN is clearly designed to be accessible to viewers who didn't see TMP; there are no callbacks to Decker or V'Ger and the production did not feel wedded to the costumes and art direction of the previous flick. You can certainly watch KHAN without any knowledge of TMP, but that's not the same thing as retconning TMP out of existence, which was never the intent. That just how movie series often work.
You can watch GOLDFINGER without having seen DR. NO, but that doesn't mean that DR. NO has been stricken from the continuity. It just means this is a new adventure, not a direct sequel to the previous adventure.
You can watch GOLDFINGER without having seen DR. NO, but that doesn't mean that DR. NO has been stricken from the continuity. It just means this is a new adventure, not a direct sequel to the previous adventure.
I think Bond is a bad example of continuity, because the effort to maintain such isn't as rigorous as Trek. Sure, there are some constants: SPECTER/Blofeld, Jaws, the odd mention of Bond's deceased wife, etc... But for the most part, these only last for a subgroup of the films and then are forgotten.
Yes, and this is exactly why Paramount should have left the movie title as Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan and not made a late change to the posters and ads.
However, I can understand why they went back and forth. Long before the premiere, I happened to see a short news item in weekly Variety (which was on newsprint then; 75 cents at newsstands) about Nicholas Meyer and Star Trek II: The Undiscovered Country. So I know that the vacillation over the use of II goes way back.
Except, like I said, you used the word "should". So yes, your topic title does impose. If you said "can", then it would be a different story.
The thread subject is "Should TMP be ignored?". It is not "TMP should be ignored!". The latter imposes a belief. The former sets up a topic for debate, inviting input from both sides.
Anyway, everyone -- except apparently you -- figured that out.
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Although, prior to THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK, that was pretty much the case with STAR TREK, too. With the rare exception of a Harry Mudd, TOS was almost entirely episodic with little or no serialization or callbacks to previous episodes. Edith Keeler is never mentioned again, guest stars and temporary love interests vanish without explanation, the status quo is restored at the end of every episode, which can be viewed in pretty much any order, etc. So the fact that KHAN did not refer back to TMP was just standard operating procedure back in 1982, since the idea that STAR TREK had some sort of rigorous continuity to maintain had yet to take root. At the time, STAR TREK was an episodic series, just like the Bond films or the Pink Panther films or whatever.
It never would have occurred to me "ignore" TMP just because KHAN had a different story with different guest-stars.
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And the other people that said "no" lol
Yes, you are correct. I'm retconning the continuity established post TWOK to all Trek before, which obviously wasn't a consideration then.
I wish I could retcon this tiresome argument out of the thread.
The Autobiography of James T. Kirk actually stated that Kirk more or less blackmailed Nogura into giving him the Enterprise for the mission and at the end of the second five year mission (c.2271/2273-2276/2278) Nogura had managed to bury the material Kirk may have against him so Kirk left Starfleet for a time and returned after Nogura was replaced by Morrow. Going by "Generations" dates, he returned in c. 2284 (a year before the events of The Wrath of Khan) at Morrow's convincing though the Enterprise was now a training ship and wouldn't be hopping across the Alpha-Beta Quadrants like it used to and Kirk was likely placed in charge of Starfleet Academy to fix the mess Nogura and his lackies had probably done there.
That's pretty silly.
And in one view: canon (depending on what expanded materials are considered Beta Canon).
The coats outside the enterprise at the end of TMP are both a callback to The Cage and a natural point between TMP and Khan timewise. The length, the shoulder flash...the magical ability to change things (Spock and McCoy swap coats, Peter Prestons blood moves...) etc. Of course they then have another coat in 2. The number of layers Starfleet wears at various times is astounding. Minimum of three it sometimes seems. Two in Tng with magical fabric (I love the scene where Ro gives her overshirt to a refugee for that one super futuristic moment.) also.
Canon? No. "Beta Canon"? Sure, why not.
I almost prefer The Federation: 150 years/Autobiography universe to the novel universe as it seems to hold close proximity to the main universe.
After all, we got an interesting (and in my opinion really good) explanation for the absence of George Kirk's two other children during the Deneva incident.
Tarsus IV?
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