Should they bring back Janeway?

[Therin of Andor]

mp3 and iTunes got CD labels in big trouble, because the medium changed (and with it the customer's power was increased). Same will happen to printed books sooner or later.

The Choose-Your-Own-Adventure Star Trek Kindle novel. If you don't like who gets killed off, you simply go into the document and switch the character for someone else.

I was at a writers' conference last September, which had about ten top local publishers in attendance. While they extolled the virtues of unabridged mp3 audio books, and the amazing possibilities of interactive eBooks of the future, no one was expecting to see the total demise of the paper book. Paper never needs a format change when the technology is upgraded, for one.

 

[JarodRussell]

mp3 and iTunes got CD labels in big trouble, because the medium changed (and with it the customer's power was increased). Same will happen to printed books sooner or later.

The Choose-Your-Own-Adventure Star Trek Kindle novel. If you don't like who gets killed off, you simply go into the document and switch the character for someone else.

I was at a writers' conference last September, which had about ten top local publishers in attendance. While they extolled the virtues of unabridged mp3 audio books, and the amazing possibilities of interactive eBooks of the future, no one was expecting to see the total demise of the paper book. Paper never needs a format change when the technology is upgraded, for one.

Well, CDs haven't vanished either, but the demand has decreased immensely.

 

[Defcon]

And what the fuck has this to do with my post? I was actually coming to kimc's defense in pointing out that she's a normal poster around here and therefore shouldn't be held to a higher standard in her posts here as Therin's post seemed to indicate.

And as much as I appreciate AuntKate's comments I also appreciate yours.

You're welcome.

But the moment that Pocket Books Authors post here and Pocket Book Editors post here, then this forum becomes something different.

The current Pocket Book Star Trek editor Jamie Costas isn't posting here (unless she does so anonymously.

The true point is not who is buying books, but how many more books could be sold if Pocket Books listened to other fans, not just the posters in Trek Lit.

That's the problem with your argument, you don't understand that nothing that is said here has any influence on the decision making process regarding the Star Trek books, no matter if it is said by "Pocket Book fanboys", "Militant Janeway fans", or whatever other factions of the membership you want to label.

Some people posting on the internet (no matter if they support the current direction or not) will never really have any influence on the future of the line, only cold hard numbers will.

 

[AuntKate]

^^ That may or may not be true. You are talking to fans who remember the day that Star Trek was cancelled in 1969 and who were told, over and over again, that it would never be revived. It was the noisy, interested fans who convinced the powers that be that it might be worthwhile reviving Star Trek. And some writers and even editors show up here at TrekBBS from time to time. Be vocal about what you want, convince the suits that there are interested people out there with money in their pockets, and things happen.

Where there is money to made, people listen.

 

[Scout101]

problem is, there are just as many vocal people here that DON'T want what you want. Can dismiss one side or the other as just BBS venting, but the 'keep Janeway dead, as-is' crowd does have one thing going for it that the MJFs don't: Sales went up when they made that decision, and have remained strong. Points towards continuing the current line...

 

[Defcon]

^^ That may or may not be true. You are talking to fans who remember the day that Star Trek was cancelled in 1969 and who were told, over and over again, that it would never be revived. It was the noisy, interested fans who convinced the powers that be that it might be worthwhile reviving Star Trek.

Yeah, the revival of Star Trek with The Motion Picture had nothing to do with the fact that Paramount tried to cash in on the Star Wars hype, and everything with the noisy fans.

 

[Thrawn]

I think I'm allowed to be hostile when people assume that anyone that holds my opinion is a chauvinistic, hateful, irrelevant husk polluting the fanbase they hold dear.

Would you say that applies to Janeway fans too?

I think, in the future, we should refer to these hostile pro-Pocket Book posters as Militant Pocket Book Fans or MPBF. They seem to enjoy the acronym MJF, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander, I've always heard!

Yes, but, like I said, there actually aren't any comparable people, unless the Voyager forum is packed with people that never post there going over to tell them that, now that Janeway's dead, all of them should buy the Voyager novels because Janeway was OBVIOUSLY the worst thing about Voyager and now that she's dead the show can finally stop being a disappointment.

Anyone do that?

 

[AuntKate]

TMP has more to do with the popularity of TOS reruns, the success of the animated series, and a deluge of fan letters than with Star Wars. Obviously, the success of the Lucas film helped move things along and convince the suits that there was money to be made in the scifi genre. The concept of the TMP was in the works starting as early as 1975, a full two years before "Star Wars" came out in 1977. Did they cash in on the "Star Wars" frenzy? You bet. They know where the money is.

The MPBF are going to buy every ST book no matter what. The editors don't have to pander to the true believers. I think that it's quite possible that the sales went up when Janeway died because there was a whole bunch of fans out there who were hungry for anything Voyager. And, admit it, she was alive and well in half of the first book--and mourned all the way through the second half.

Credit Beyer for writing a good tale, of course, but don't overlook the fact that this is a Voyager story with Janeway either present in body and/or spirit. Add to that the fact that CBS/Paramount refused to let her die, and you have to expect a return sooner or later from her sojourn with the Q. When that happens, I bet you will see an even bigger spike in sales. I personally think that is what PB is counting on.

 

[Brit]

problem is, there are just as many vocal people here that DON'T want what you want. Can dismiss one side or the other as just BBS venting, but the 'keep Janeway dead, as-is' crowd does have one thing going for it that the MJFs don't: Sales went up when they made that decision, and have remained strong. Points towards continuing the current line...

Oh is that the line that is doing so well that the editors were let go and the number of novels produced were cut back. Just how does that translate into strong sales. You don't cut back on things that are making you money.

Brit

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Now Janeway's death is responsible for the economy? Wow. That woman was more influential than any of us knew!

 

[Defcon]

And obviously the dead Janeway can also alter the past since the cutback in Star Trek books was two years before she was offed in Before Dishonor.

 

[Steve Roby]

Oh is that the line that is doing so well that the editors were let go and the number of novels produced were cut back. Just how does that translate into strong sales. You don't cut back on things that are making you money.

Weren't you just telling us that ebooks were destroying the whole publishing industry? Do try to keep your story straight.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Oh is that the line that is doing so well that the editors were let go and the number of novels produced were cut back. Just how does that translate into strong sales. You don't cut back on things that are making you money.

24 novels a year was possible when there were two TV series pumping original episodes out to support and promote sales. We now get at least twelve novels a year, with more word count for our $$$$, and it's still more than any other franchise I know - although maybe "Doctor Who" books are still popping out at more than 12 per year?

Regular ST novel lines that didn't make money were culled: "Stargazer", eBook editions of "Corp of Engineers", "IKS Gorkon", "Challenger", Shatner's "Academy", perhaps. There's your economic rationalism right there.

But controversy sells books. The story arcs needed ramping up, and Janeway's death has provided plenty of publicity to get more people supporting VOY novels. Her eventual return is inevitable. But what's the hurry? (It's not as if you're champing at the bit to read the book. You have your fanfic to keep you busy.) It should happen only when the editor and the current author decide that the timing is best for the ongoing storyline. And if they decide Janeway will return, but in some different capacity than captain of her old ship and crew, will you be satisfied? I doubt it.

Admiral Janeway's alive in "Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many", a book which ignores the current plots of the other Pocket lines. Have you read it yet?

If ST books weren't making money for Pocket, over and above the hefty licensing fees, they'd drop the line. Simon & Schuster recently restructured, and they don't do many other TV tie-ins these days, but they still do ST. (Actually, when the line first started, it was under their "Timescape" science fiction banner, but they dropped all other science fiction from Pocket's lists, leaving only ST, the constant, usually predictable performer.)

We saw this happen kind of thing happen with Marvel's second ST line of comics. Critically acclaimed, decent sales, simultaneous story arcs - but Marvel had paid an inflated price for the license, so they dropped the line, not even finishing one storyline. If licensed tie-in titles don't sell in sufficient quantities to make a good profit, over and above the license, the company is better off doing original material.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

But controversy sells books. The story arcs needed ramping up, and Janeway's death has provided plenty of publicity to get more people supporting VOY novels.

I'll say. Over the last couple of weeks I've purchased all six Voyager relaunch novels and I'm not even a Voyager fan. BTW people can say what they want about Christie Golden but I enjoyed Homecoming and I'm enjoying The Farther Shore. I can't wait to get to Kristen Beyer's stuff.

 

[Therin of Andor]

BTW people can say what they want about Christie Golden but I enjoyed Homecoming and I'm enjoying The Farther Shore.

It's weird how Golden fell out of favour.

I liked her early stuff but the "Dark Matters" trilogy was boooooring. "Gateways: No Man's Land" was just weird. I enjoyed "Homecoming"/'"The Farther Shore", but was really surprised that there was a Borg subplot. I disliked the holo-beings' rebellion very much; it didn't seem to be well-thought out.

 

[chelly]

I didn't care for the borg story, I think at the time I was just overdone with the Borg. I didn't care for the B'elanna subplot, where she went to find her mother. I can understand why but I thought she was doing it at the wrong time. She just had a baby so she decides to spend a few months in the wilderness looking for her mother. That and Tom wasn't with her (yes I am a Tom and B'elanna fan), which seemed out of character for him.

I always thought the hologram/doctor having rights was strange. I am not even sure how I feel about it. I am still not sure how a hologram which someone can put their hands through can do complicated surgery etc.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I always thought the hologram/doctor having rights was strange. I am not even sure how I feel about it.

That's not my problem with the story arc. The EMH transcended his programming and became sentient (and mobile) by a set of unique circumstances. My problem was that - suddenly - Golden seemed to assume that every holographic person used by the Federation in the 24th century was a sentient entity who'd been enslaved and needed a rebellion to set them free. To do what?

 

[F. King Daniel]

"To do what?" - To give some crackpot who's desperate for attention and meaning in his life something to fight for.

Besides, can't the Federation create sapient holograms on a whim now?

The Doctor and Moriarty are the exceptions rather than the rule, but weren't all those crazed holograms made by the Hirogen 'alive' too? It might as well be some sort of option when you create it "would you like your hologram to truely live? Y/N"

IIRC there was a virus given the holograms in Homecoming to give them a sense of self worth (or something along those lines).

Either way I liked the hologram story. I thought it was wierd, but in a good way.

What I thought utterly stupid was the end of B'Lanna's story in The Farther Shore.

 

[JD]

problem is, there are just as many vocal people here that DON'T want what you want. Can dismiss one side or the other as just BBS venting, but the 'keep Janeway dead, as-is' crowd does have one thing going for it that the MJFs don't: Sales went up when they made that decision, and have remained strong. Points towards continuing the current line...

Oh is that the line that is doing so well that the editors were let go and the number of novels produced were cut back. Just how does that translate into strong sales. You don't cut back on things that are making you money.

Brit

Except that had absolutely nothing to do with Trek and everything to do with the crappy economy. Things like what happened to Trek happened to the entire company.

 

[kimc]

Janeway died. Her death increased sales figures of VOY novels. Two sequels were commissioned on the strength of excellent sales.

AGAIN - there is no proof of a direct correlation between Janeway's death and the sales. The quality of Beyer's writing most likely has something to do with it or else Pocket would not have asked her to write a third novel.