Should they bring back Janeway?

[Defcon]

Welcome to the club, Therin. A year ago I received an infraction because kimc was being equally inflammatory and I called her on it.

FWIW If I've understand past comments by the staff correctly, outside "their" forums mods are just normal members. So since kimc isn't a mod of TrekLit, it's not a mod calling us fanboys, but "just" the fellow board member kimc.

I thought her comment was not just funny, but apropos. Many of you have stated clearly that not all posters are welcome here (don't dare post if you haven't read the novels). A person can have an opinion about the direction the novels have taken based on what they have read of it online. Granted, their opinion doesn't carry as much weight, but they have a right to post if they want. Telling them to stay away is a bit exclusionary, don't you think? And, anyway, she didn't call any certain poster a fanboy. If you feel that she is talking to you, then you are the one making that connection.

And what the fuck has this to do with my post? I was actually coming to kimc's defense in pointing out that she's a normal poster around here and therefore shouldn't be held to a higher standard in her posts here as Therin's post seemed to indicate.

But why let the actual content of a post come in the way of yet another drive-by shooting, heh?

 

[AuntKate]

FWIW If I've understand past comments by the staff correctly, outside "their" forums mods are just normal members. So since kimc isn't a mod of TrekLit, it's not a mod calling us fanboys, but "just" the fellow board member kimc.

I thought her comment was not just funny, but apropos. Many of you have stated clearly that not all posters are welcome here (don't dare post if you haven't read the novels). A person can have an opinion about the direction the novels have taken based on what they have read of it online. Granted, their opinion doesn't carry as much weight, but they have a right to post if they want. Telling them to stay away is a bit exclusionary, don't you think? And, anyway, she didn't call any certain poster a fanboy. If you feel that she is talking to you, then you are the one making that connection.

And what the fuck has this to do with my post? I was actually coming to kimc's defense in pointing out that she's a normal poster around here and therefore shouldn't be held to a higher standard in her posts here as Therin's post seemed to indicate.

But why let the actual content of a post come in the way of yet another drive-by shooting, heh?

Sorry if you are offended. I thought I was agreeing with you. My bad.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

According to the posters, Bruce Wayne is back from the dead (again) soon in the "Batman" comics. They all come back eventually.

Technically Steve Rogers is back but not as Captain America (Bucky's gonna stay there - probably not beyond the movie though?); and last I heard Dick is gonna be Bats for the next few years at least, so I dunno what they're doing with Bruce?

Want my theory? I gotta warn you -- it's a doozy.

Allyn's Crackpot Batman Theory.

Grant Morrison would probably do that. The question is if DC's higher-ups would let him do that....

Of course, this doesn't have anything to do with Janeway pushing up daisies.

 

[Thestral]

Technically Steve Rogers is back but not as Captain America (Bucky's gonna stay there - probably not beyond the movie though?); and last I heard Dick is gonna be Bats for the next few years at least, so I dunno what they're doing with Bruce?

Yeah, I know - The Death of Captain America was one of the best arcs I've ever read in comics. I'm fine with the new role for Steve, too. I'm not sure I see it working as well with Bruce.

I really like Allyn's theory... aside from that, I'm sure it'll be only a temporary thing. But what about just letting Bruce move on, Jack Knight style?

I think I'm getting angry about a mod calling some of us "fanboys".

Welcome to the club, Therin. A year ago I received an infraction because kimc was being equally inflammatory and I called her on it.

FWIW If I've understand past comments by the staff correctly, outside "their" forums mods are just normal members. So since kimc isn't a mod of TrekLit, it's not a mod calling us fanboys, but "just" the fellow board member kimc.

Indeed. It's understandable that it rankles though IMO.

According to the posters, Bruce Wayne is back from the dead (again) soon in the "Batman" comics. They all come back eventually.

Technically Steve Rogers is back but not as Captain America (Bucky's gonna stay there - probably not beyond the movie though?); and last I heard Dick is gonna be Bats for the next few years at least, so I dunno what they're doing with Bruce?

Want my theory? I gotta warn you -- it's a doozy.

Allyn's Crackpot Batman Theory.

Grant Morrison would probably do that. The question is if DC's higher-ups would let him do that....

Of course, this doesn't have anything to do with Janeway pushing up daisies.

That's brilliant!


Who's Janeway again?

 

[Therin of Andor]

A person can have an opinion about the direction the novels have taken based on what they have read of it online.

Amazing. People who don't read or like a particular line of fiction feel that they have a right to attempt to influence the future of that line of fiction, even though some of them have said they have no intention of ever reading it.

If you feel that she is talking to you, then you are the one making that connection.

And if you feel that regulars here are unfriendly towards Janeway and VOY fans who don't read the licensed ficion, perhaps it is you making that connection. (And that's before mentioning that many of the regulars here in TrekLit are Janeway fans.)

I feel welcome in threads where I am a knowledgeable participant in the ongoing discussion. All over TrekBBS. I never go into tech threads because I don't have a lot of knowledge of ST blueprints, classes of ships, discussions of warp drive, etc. If I did go in, I know there'd be little common ground for an even discussion.

I don't usually enter threads for ST novels I haven't read yet, either. If I do, I know I risk spoilers, but I also feel very out-of-the-discussion, even though I'm a regular in TrekLit. If I say something in a thread about which I happen to know a lot, and I hit a wall of seeming unfriendliness and negativity - and that has happened to me often enough - I do try to work out why I'm suddenly feeling like the vocal minority.

In general, I find that Star Trek fans are very accepting of others with different viewpoints. But, when that other person is deliberately uninformed on a topic, but is still vocal and holds strong views that will never be swayed, some friction is bound to happen.

 

[JoeZhang]

According to the posters, Bruce Wayne is back from the dead (again) soon in the "Batman" comics. They all come back eventually.

Technically Steve Rogers is back but not as Captain America (Bucky's gonna stay there - probably not beyond the movie though?); and last I heard Dick is gonna be Bats for the next few years at least, so I dunno what they're doing with Bruce?

Want my theory? I gotta warn you -- it's a doozy.

Allyn's Crackpot Batman Theory.

Grant Morrison would probably do that. The question is if DC's higher-ups would let him do that....

Of course, this doesn't have anything to do with Janeway pushing up daisies.

It's not happening - Dido believes that only Clark Kent can be Superman and Bruce Wayne can be Batman, every interview he does reinforces that point. So when they do a 'stand-in' story, it's simply to show why, in the long-run, it has to be Bruce or Clark. So any story has to return to that with little or no twists.

 

[elaithin]

Pretty interesting theory, though. I'd love to see it.. but don't think it'll ever happen, for just that reason.

 

[kimc]

I think I'm allowed to be hostile when people assume that anyone that holds my opinion is a chauvinistic, hateful, irrelevant husk polluting the fanbase they hold dear.

Would you say that applies to Janeway fans too?

 

[Thrawn]

I think I'm allowed to be hostile when people assume that anyone that holds my opinion is a chauvinistic, hateful, irrelevant husk polluting the fanbase they hold dear.

Would you say that applies to Janeway fans too?

Of course. But it's our party that you're crashing, not the other way around.

If I went into the VOY forum and told everyone there that Janeway was dead and that it was what Voyager should've been all along, and that anyone that didn't instantly go buy the books was clearly a bad Trek fan and didn't deserve to have an opinion, then you might have a point.

 

[kimc]

And what the fuck has this to do with my post? I was actually coming to kimc's defense in pointing out that she's a normal poster around here and therefore shouldn't be held to a higher standard in her posts here as Therin's post seemed to indicate.

And as much as I appreciate AuntKate's comments I also appreciate yours.

As for the "angry fanboys" epithet it doesn't matter whether or not I have certain individuals in mind when using it. The important thing is I will never call an individual on this board that because that would be making it about the poster rather than the post. Also, with my Italian temper if I decided I really wanted to flame someone "angry fanboy" would probably be the nicest thing in that post.

Besides, alongside some of the insulting nicknames for Janeway fans in TrekLit over the past year "angry fanboys" is looking pretty tame.

 

[kimc]

I think I'm allowed to be hostile when people assume that anyone that holds my opinion is a chauvinistic, hateful, irrelevant husk polluting the fanbase they hold dear.

Would you say that applies to Janeway fans too?

Of course. But it's our party that you're crashing, not the other way around.

If I went into the VOY forum and told everyone there that Janeway was dead and that it was what Voyager should've been all along, and that anyone that didn't instantly go buy the books was clearly a bad Trek fan and didn't deserve to have an opinion, then you might have a point.

Knock yourself out. If that's your opinion then you should have the right to state it here, the Voyager forum or anywhere else on the board for that matter. However, if you called anyone who didn't agree with you an idiot I'd slap a flaming warning on you so fast your head would be spinning for days. Also, if you went into every thread and posted "Janeway sucks" you'd be spamming and I'd be warning.

Ever been to a football game where the home team was losing and fans were leaving early? Ever hear those fans being boo'd by other fans who thought they weren't "loyal enough"? Perhaps those leaving early just wanted to beat the traffic. Or perhaps they just cared SO much about their home team it was too painful to continue watching. I guess it's just a matter of perspective...

 

[elaithin]

Sure, anyone has the right to voice their opinion. They don't need to be rude when they do it, though.

 

[kimc]

Sure, anyone has the right to voice their opinion. They don't need to be rude when they do it, though.

Agreed.

 

[Brit]

You know I’ve said this before and I will say this again and again, so long as this forum and threads are simple fans discussing books and or characters, I wouldn’t care what any of you said or any of you did. But the moment that Pocket Books Authors post here and Pocket Book Editors post here, then this forum becomes something different.

The appearance of Trek Authors and Trek Editors gives this forum an official status whether you protest or not; because these people do have some influence, they are voices that get heard. We very simply want to make sure that we are heard too. You cannot have it both ways, you all either exclude “official” comment and influence, or you allow everyone to have a say.

The true point is not who is buying books, but how many more books could be sold if Pocket Books listened to other fans, not just the posters in Trek Lit. And if you don’t think that this is critical you are the ones with your heads in the sand. Book stores are going broke, publishers are not making money. The difference is that not too long ago publishers were not expected to make money (they were tax write offs for big corporations). All that has changed, what may seem like pretty good sales to you all, are not keeping publishers afloat. I am speaking of all publishers, of the scramble for ideas that make publishing cheaper, ideas that cut costs, because frankly the majority of people don’t read novels at all.

Many knowledgeable people are predicting that very soon paperback books will be a thing of the past, replaced by e-readers and Kindles. Guys your world is changing and it’s changing at the speed of light almost. Before you all decide that some of us don’t know what we are talking about, go take a look around you the evidence is easy to see. What we don’t want is for Janeway and Janeway fans to be lost in the implosion.

Brit

 

[AuntKate]

I think I'm allowed to be hostile when people assume that anyone that holds my opinion is a chauvinistic, hateful, irrelevant husk polluting the fanbase they hold dear.

Would you say that applies to Janeway fans too?

I think, in the future, we should refer to these hostile pro-Pocket Book posters as Militant Pocket Book Fans or MPBF. They seem to enjoy the acronym MJF, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander, I've always heard!

 

[Brit]

Many knowledgeable people are predicting that very soon paperback books will be a thing of the past, replaced by e-readers and Kindles. Guys your world is changing and it’s changing at the speed of light almost. Before you all decide that some of us don’t know what we are talking about, go take a look around you the evidence is easy to see. What we don’t want is for Janeway and Janeway fans to be lost in the implosion.

Just one more piece about just how fast your world is changing.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/04/26/100426fa_fact_auletta

Brit

 

[Therin of Andor]

Many knowledgeable people are predicting that very soon paperback books will be a thing of the past, replaced by e-readers and Kindles.

"Many knowledgeable people" also predicted the death of the book when cinemas went talky, and when they went technicolor, and again when TVs brought news and stories into lounge rooms. And the book is still here. They predicted video games, the Internet and DVDs would kill off the book. And the book is still here.

A novel on an iPad or Kindle is still a book, and the publisher doesn't have to gamble on spending money on paper or storage or freight.

Guys your world is changing

Your world already changed: Janeway died. Her death increased sales figures of VOY novels. Two sequels were commissioned on the strength of excellent sales.

Her resurrection may also increase sales figures. Or people might be disgusted she came back and walk away. Publishing is a gamble and eBooks look like making the odds a little better. Eventually.

When/if Janeway returns, you don't want any change. Janeway must remain immortal, and must remain in command of Voyager. (Must she always hover in indecision over whether to have a renewed relationship with Mark or with Chakotay, too?).

And your point was...?

 

[JarodRussell]

Many knowledgeable people are predicting that very soon paperback books will be a thing of the past, replaced by e-readers and Kindles.

"Many knowledgeable people" also predicted the death of the book when cinemas went talky, and when they went technicolor, and again when TVs brought news and stories into lounge rooms. And the book is still here. They predicted video games, the Internet and DVDs would kill off the book. And the book is still here.

The book as in "printed pages fastened along one side and encased between protective covers". Cinema, TV, Internet and DVDs are not a new technology replacing "the paperback book". An e-book on a Kindle is.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The appearance of Trek Authors and Trek Editors gives this forum an official status whether you protest or not; because these people do have some influence, they are voices that get heard. We very simply want to make sure that we are heard too. You cannot have it both ways, you all either exclude “official” comment and influence, or you allow everyone to have a say.

So we ban the authors from posting altogether and diminish the appeal of the board and everyone drifts off to find somewhere else where they can chat to the authors as they did before.

Then you come there too, because that's the only place you think will count for airing your views.

So we ban the authors from posting there, too, and diminish the appeal of that board and everyone drifts off to find somewhere else where they can chat to the authors as they did before.

And we come "Full Circle". Aptly named book that.

The book as in "paper wrapped in a cover". Cinema, TV, Internet and DVDs are not a new technology replacing "the paperback book". An e-book on a Kindle is. For the first time.

So if all physical paper books die, and we have Kindles instead, how does that bring back Janeway?

 

[JarodRussell]

The book as in "paper wrapped in a cover". Cinema, TV, Internet and DVDs are not a new technology replacing "the paperback book". An e-book on a Kindle is. For the first time.

So if all physical paper books die, and we have Kindles instead, how does that bring back Janeway?

I don't know, I just wanted to be a smartass about semantics and definitions.

mp3 and iTunes got CD labels in big trouble, because the medium changed (and with it the customer's power was increased). Same will happen to printed books sooner or later.