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should teenager like 16 or 17 get the death penality?

So am I, but only for the extreme cases. If somebody commits armed robbery, but doesn't hurt anybody, then no. Life in prison is good enough.

Er, we don't lock people up for life for not actually hurting anyone. Usually.

So, if an armed robber beats someone up, you're saying they should be executed? :wtf:

No, I'm saying that anybody who commits MURDER or rape (both inexcusable and unforgivable in my view) should automatically get the death penalty.

And how exactly are we to determine if they HAVE committed rape or murder without a trial? While I am adamantly opposed to the death penalty, I can at least understand why some people favour it.

OTOH, your suggestion that murders don't deserve a trial wins you a big :wtf: from me.
 
So am I, but only for the extreme cases. If somebody commits armed robbery, but doesn't hurt anybody, then no. Life in prison is good enough.

Er, we don't lock people up for life for not actually hurting anyone. Usually.

So, if an armed robber beats someone up, you're saying they should be executed? :wtf:

No, I'm saying that anybody who commits MURDER or rape (both inexcusable and unforgivable in my view) should automatically get the death penalty.

And yeah, I know we don't lock people up for life for not hurting anybody, but, armed robbery should be punishable by life imprisonment. Any crime with a gun (or whatever weapon) implies intent to harm.

Sorry, that's complete nonsense.

Justice has nothing to do with what we can "excuse" or "forgive." Innocent people do get sent to prison. People on death row are exonerated with frightening regularity. The state should not have the power to deprive you of your life. The death penalty isn't even cost-effective, and it doesn't provide a deterrent effect. In essence, it serves none of the purposes it is meant to, unless your purpose is vengeance--which is not justice.

And a crime committed with a gun does not imply intent to harm. It only implies a threat of harm. Not everyone who commits a crime with a weapon intends to actually use it. When it comes to things like robbery, they don't want to have to use the weapon. This is why such things are considered during trial and sentencing. Robbing someone at gunpoint isn't in the same league as actually shooting at them. One is a threat. One is a clear intent to harm/kill.
 
On the other hand, murderers and rapists don't even deserve a trial. They should be shot dead on sight.


.................. and how exactly are you supposed to know whether they are a murderer or rapist???
 
Screw 'em. Who doesn't know have a sufficient understanding of right and wrong at 16 to get away with murder?
 
No. Rules are rules. If you are under 18 you get treated as a minor for everything. That's why we have rules so we know how to respond in certain situations.

I should point out that those under 18 aren't treated as a minor for everything. But it is against our laws to have them executed.

Personally, I'm opposed to the death penalty in all cases, so I'd be ill-equipped to decide whether or not 18 is an appropriate cut-off to kill people older, but not younger. Age markers tend to be arbitrary no matter how you slice them.
 
No civilized country has the death penalty.
Insulting nonsense and hyperbole. Factually inaccurate.

You can offer your own opinion on it being insulting hyperbole, but how can a subjective judgment on national civility and the morality of the death penalty be "factually inaccurate"?

No one wants to describe their own country in that way, and it gets a little more complicated when you take into account changing political climates repealing and reinstating capital punishment numerous times throughout the years, or the differing federal, state, and district laws (for instance, your state of Michigan was actually the first English-speaking government in the world to ban the death penalty in 1846 and it remains banned there and in 15 other states and DC). I can't disagree with her assessment though. It sickens me that the death penalty is practiced here, and carried out in such a clearly unfair way on top of that depending on race and wealth especially.

The whole policy doesn't even make sense. While the number of executions in the US is high relative to other first world nations, relative to the number of murders in the US it is remarkably rarely used, so what's the point? It's certainly not to protect anyone from murderers getting out at some point if that's the case, or it would be far more frequently used. No, it's a state or national tool of vengeance, a government-sponsored version of the ridiculous revenge fantasies that crop up around TrekBBS whenever a particularly heinous crime is discussed. And like that, people can hide behind anonymity and someone else carrying out the actual deed so they can sound tough, when if they actually had to take part or witness it directly they might not be so cavalier about it all.

It doesn't serve as a deterrent in any way, it's wasteful in taxpayer funds and government resources, and it's extremely divisive and paints our country and individual states in a bad light with much of the world and even many of our own citizens.

No civilized country has the death penalty.

Agreed. All civilized countries have Public healthcare, too. :p

*runs and hides*

Sadly, I can't disagree with that either.

On the other hand, murderers and rapists don't even deserve a trial. They should be shot dead on sight.
You absolute mental case.

So...what... you want a society where murderers and rapists are allowed to live? THEY are the mental cases, otherwise why would they hurt people?

So, mental cases want to hurt people, and you just advocated lynch mobs shooting people on sight and without trial if they believe they have the right person in custody. Connect the dots and hopefully you'll see the glaring flaw in your reasoning.
 
Just to let you know J. Allen when I completely fall off my diet and go on a sugar binge I am going to hold your avatar responsible.:drool::scream:

No sir! As a diabetic, all my baked goods are sugar free (or drastically reduced in sugar content) and taste delicious!


J.


Oh good. As a fellow diabetic I am relieved.:)

The way I cook & bake shows that, in general, blood sugar levels are not negatively affected by the food in question. I've become rather good at this. :D

J.
 
You can offer your own opinion on it being insulting hyperbole, but how can a subjective judgment on national civility and the morality of the death penalty be "factually inaccurate"?
Quite simply because it does not allow for the existence of civilization or civilized society, which there is in America in abundance, where capital punishment is practiced. It also implies that societies that don't practice it are inherently civilized, or at least more so than states that do. If you look at comparative levels of violence and crime in states and nations that do practice capital versus those that don't, I think you'll find that such implications do not hold water.

(for instance, your state of Michigan was actually the first English-speaking government in the world to ban the death penalty in 1846 and it remains banned there and in 15 other states and DC).
I'm well aware of this fact. I actually pointed it out to my girlfriend's father (from the UK) when he made a point concerning capital punishment in the US. Ironic that after Michigan had banned it public hangings were still being carried out in Canada, just across the river.

I can't disagree with her assessment though. It sickens me that the death penalty is practiced here, and carried out in such a clearly unfair way on top of that depending on race and wealth especially.
I'm with you there. It is ineffectively and selectively carried out. Our justice system is largely that way - ineffective and unjust. I think it should be used equally on everyone, regardless of what walk of life they come from, and replace life imprisonment everywhere, including where "three strikes" laws are in place.

The whole policy doesn't even make sense. While the number of executions in the US is high relative to other first world nations, relative to the number of murders in the US it is remarkably rarely used, so what's the point? It's certainly not to protect anyone from murderers getting out at some point if that's the case, or it would be far more frequently used. No, it's a state or national tool of vengeance, a government-sponsored version of the ridiculous revenge fantasies that crop up around TrekBBS whenever a particularly heinous crime is discussed. And like that, people can hide behind anonymity and someone else carrying out the actual deed so they can sound tough, when if they actually had to take part or witness it directly they might not be so cavalier about it all.
I have no problem with vengeance, either personal or state-run, though I believe in the case of the state it should require overwhelming evidence against the accused, as theoretically it does. As for anonymity, I'm in favor of bringing back public hangings, that all may see what happens when heinous crimes are committed and the perpetrators are caught.

It doesn't serve as a deterrent in any way, it's wasteful in taxpayer funds and government resources, and it's extremely divisive and paints our country and individual states in a bad light with much of the world and even many of our own citizens.
I can't argue that much of the world looks down on it, but I cannot agree that it is inherently unjustified, especially in the face of so many violent, repeat offenders that after a stint in jail (where they learn more criminal behavior) are free to walk the streets again. Add to that a growing population and dwindling food supplies, and it makes more and more sense for society to have a built-in population control valve, as it were, to remove the worst elements of society from common street thugs to corrupt politicians and businessmen in a very permanent fashion. Carrying out executions publicly will go a long way to increase the deterrence factor.
 
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