Asking certain Trek fans to be open-minded is like asking a zebra to change its stripes.
Should Kirk be bisexual?
- Thread starter MostlyHarmless1
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That is exactly why Kirk should have been made bisexual.
Star Trek has the power to benefit lives and they missed that particular opportunity.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
I might enjoy it more if it didn't promote homosexuality. Until then I won't watch it.
Had to? Nobody forced you to, you know.
It depicts homosexuality, but I wouldn't necessarily say it promotes it.
It wasn't like Captain Jack won the lottery every time he did something gay.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
Actually, that would damage lives. I'd be more than happy to explain how in a reasonable manner if you're willing to listen. I'd also like to hear how you feel it would benefit lives.
Tell you what. How about you back off? Like, NOW.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The creators of Torchwood made their choices. TLS made his choice. Everyone did as they liked.
End of story.
And I don't think either of them asked for your opinion about the choices they made.
So knock this shit off.
I would LOVE to hear how you think making Kirk bisexual would damage lives (with the possible exception of Shatner's ego's life). As for how it would benefit lives, I reckon it couldn't hurt to show gay and bisexual teens that it's possible to be whatever you want and to reach your potential, regardless of your sexuality. It would show that Kirk could become the captain of the Federation's flagship both as a heterosexual man and a bisexual man.
TLS, let's drop this conversation, please.
Torchwood is off topic. And as I said in my previous post, they have a right to put whatever they like in their show...but no one can force you to like it. Or watch it.
That's really all the explanation that is necessary here in this thread.
Thanks.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
In my opinion homosexuality is wholly immoral and has no place being promoted or presented to children as an acceptable way of living. Promoting immorality, especially to kids, is damaging to both them and to society in general. Now, that's my opinion and I respect that yours and others may differ.
ETA: Thanks for posting your opinion. I differ with you obviously, but thanks for making your opinion clearer.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
PT, sorry, I just responded to what someone else said about Torchwood. Hopefully I made my point clear on Trek in the post above in a respectful, even handed manner.
If that's your opinion, then that's your opinion and there's not a helluva lot me or anybody else can judge about it.
However, what's acceptable in society is made up of the collective views and opinions of it's citizens. In most western societies, homosexuality is wholly moral and agreeable, even if presented to children as an acceptable way of living.
So while people cannot judge you on your opinions, they can point out the fact that they don't stroke with the opinions of society. Thus it is unfair to say watching Torchwood 'had' you switch the channel. You didn't had to switch the channel, you chose to switch it. There's a difference there.
On topic: I do believe there should be more progressive elements in Star Trek, just as it was in the days of TOS. Homosexuality, bisexuality, interspecies orgies with undefined sexual apparatus; I wouldn't have a problem with those. As long as they were subservient to the plot and not purely for declaration reasons.
Yep. I get it.
But you've said your bit - taken your stand. And I think it's probably best if we left it at that.
Guys...I'm instructing TLS to not turn this into a argument over Christian morality, and I'm instructing the rest of you to back off with the attacks.
We are all entitled to our opinions on this matter. And unless you want to see this thread closed faster than a speeding bullet, I suggest you ALL back off: from preaching at other posters AND from piling on posters you don't agree with because their views on this issue are different from your own.
I am not going to spend all week doing paperwork for warnings issued in this thread. So take my word for it: if this thread continues along these lines, I'll lock it down.
Okay this thread is going to get locked in 3, 2, 1 ....
But until then, this thread just proves what I just said. Despite the Star Trek and Vulcan ideal of IDIC, Star Trek fans do not believe in it. They'd rather worry about a drunk uncle or stardates that are different than the ones used previously or the fact that engineering was a beer factory.
Not all fans mind you. I know many, many progressive normal people who loved this movie.
But we have our bigots as well. Clearly.
But until then, this thread just proves what I just said. Despite the Star Trek and Vulcan ideal of IDIC, Star Trek fans do not believe in it. They'd rather worry about a drunk uncle or stardates that are different than the ones used previously or the fact that engineering was a beer factory.
Not all fans mind you. I know many, many progressive normal people who loved this movie.
But we have our bigots as well. Clearly.
Of course, just as in any sort of grouping of people.
But then again, Star Trek is a show that's aired *now*, not in the future. So we obviously won't see everyone running around in the nude because they've done away with prudeness.
Of course, just as in any sort of grouping of people.
But then again, Star Trek is a show that's aired *now*, not in the future. So we obviously won't see everyone running around in the nude because they've done away with prudeness.
But how can certain Star Trek "fans" be so very against the very PHILOSOPHY behind it???
I could understand MAINSTREAM people not wanting a gay character. I.e. the people they wanted to attract with this movie. But real FANS should embrace IDIC.
"Should Kirk be bisexual?"
What? No. What the hell is wrong with you people!?
What? No. What the hell is wrong with you people!?
Open mindedness and progressive thinking is indeed inline with the spirit of Star Trek, I believe.. To boldly go where no man has gone before, and all that.
However, some people don't like Star Trek, they like an imaginary world where things are possible that are absolutely outrageously insane in the real world. In their eyes. Like a fantasy world, with elves and dwarves and such.
I thought TLS and I were having a nice civil discussion.
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