Ships of the Line 2022

[David cgc]

My fervent dream come true would be one SOTL calendar that includes an image of each Star Trek show. Of course, the more shows are released, the harder it's going to be to cram them in. Unless crossover.

We're still at less than 14 "eras," right? Counting movies, since they're visually distinct, but not TAS, because it isn't. ENT, DSC, SNW, TOS, Movie-era, TNG, DS9, VGR, TNG-Movie-era, LDS, PGY, PIC, DSC 2.0, KT. That's... 14, exactly.

 

[Markonian]

We're still at less than 14 "eras," right? Counting movies, since they're visually distinct, but not TAS, because it isn't. ENT, DSC, SNW, TOS, Movie-era, TNG, DS9, VGR, TNG-Movie-era, LDS, PGY, PIC, DSC 2.0, KT. That's... 14, exactly.

If we go era-specific to include several series in one image, we could:
1) TOS/TOS movie era image with TAS-specific element
2) TNG
3) TNG movie-era, e.g. E-E, Cerritos, Voyager and Defiant docked at DS9. Bajor's induction ceremony?
4) ENT
5) DSC (either 23rd or 32nd century)
6) SNW
7) PGY
8) PIC
9) KEL
Leaves room for 10-12 + Centerfold

 

[Christopher]

We're still at less than 14 "eras," right? Counting movies, since they're visually distinct, but not TAS, because it isn't. ENT, DSC, SNW, TOS, Movie-era, TNG, DS9, VGR, TNG-Movie-era, LDS, PGY, PIC, DSC 2.0, KT. That's... 14, exactly.

If TOS and TAS are one era, shouldn't DSC (seasons 1-2) and SNW be one era? And shouldn't TNG/DS9/VGR be one era?

 

[TJ Sinclair]

If TOS and TAS are one era, shouldn't DSC (seasons 1-2) and SNW be one era? And shouldn't TNG/DS9/VGR be one era?

One can make the case that there's an aesthetic difference between TNG/early DS9 and late DS9/Voyager/TNG films.

 

[David cgc]

Markonian said shows, but I thought there was enough of a difference between the TOS and movie versions of the Enterprise, and of the -D and -E, (never mind pre- and post-jump DSC) to count them as different "shows," and "era" was the first word I thought of that suggested both a distinct hero ship as well as a distinct appearance of that ship. Maybe "setting" would've been better? "Milieu"?

 

[Christopher]

One can make the case that there's an aesthetic difference between TNG/early DS9 and late DS9/Voyager/TNG films.

There's an aesthetic difference between TOS and TAS too, what with only one of them being a cartoon. I'd actually kind of like to see some SOTL art in the TAS style.

 

[TJ Sinclair]

There's an aesthetic difference between TOS and TAS too, what with only one of them being a cartoon. I'd actually kind of like to see some SOTL art in the TAS style.

But there isn't any really aesthetic difference in starship design between the two, which is what was being discussed/compared.

I too would like to see TAS-style art in the calendars, but that's a different topic than "design eras."

 

[Christopher]

But there isn't any really aesthetic difference in starship design between the two, which is what was being discussed/compared.

Counterarguments:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/TAS_studio_models

There's a lot of aesthetic innovation in TAS's Starfleet, Federation civilian, and alien ships beyond anything seen in TOS. They keep some of the basics of Jefferies design like the nacelles and deflector dishes, but use a lot of distinct shapes like the boxiness of the robot freighters and the Huron, the teardrop shape of Cyrano Jones's scout ship, the race-car sleekness of the aquashuttle and Copernicus shuttle, etc. Not to mention the alien designs that could be worth exploring more, like the Traitor's Claw and the Orion pirate ship.

And I still don't see a sharp difference between TNG aesthetics and DS9/VGR aesthetics -- more just an evolutionary progression. I wouldn't call it greater than the TOS/TAS difference.

 

[Dukhat]

Yeah, I would group the four major Starfleet eras as ENT, TOS/TAS, TMP, and TNG/DS9/VGR/LDS/PIC.

ENT: 2150’s - before 2260’s
TOS/TAS - before 2260’s - 2270
TMP - 2270 - before 2350’s
TNG et al - 2350’s - 2399

(These are just approximate dates based on visual cues seen throughout the 50+ years of Star Trek on screen.)

DSC seems to be its own thing, or at best, it’s part of the tail end of the ENT era. It certainly isn’t part of TOS. The jury’s still out on SNW, but I wouldn’t hold my breath that it’s going to be much different from DSC in visual style.

It’s a shame there wasn’t more world-building during the production of ENT. It seems like the producers were more interested in showing the crew in their underwear giving massages instead of actually creating a distinct visual world of early Starfleet in the 22nd century.

 

[Christopher]

It’s a shame there wasn’t more world-building during the production of ENT. It seems like the producers were more interested in showing the crew in their underwear giving massages instead of actually creating a distinct visual world of early Starfleet in the 22nd century.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I love ENT's production design, the way it depicts a Starfleet that feels like a logical intermediate step between modern tech and TOS-era tech. I love the well-thought-out details like the cooling fans on the bridge consoles and the ubiquitous handholds in case the gravity goes out. I think ENT has the best technology design of any show in the franchise.

 

[Dukhat]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I love ENT's production design, the way it depicts a Starfleet that feels like a logical intermediate step between modern tech and TOS-era tech. I love the well-thought-out details like the cooling fans on the bridge consoles and the ubiquitous handholds in case the gravity goes out. I think ENT has the best technology design of any show in the franchise.

I wasn’t talking about the production design. I was talking about the hero ship of the Earth Starfleet looking like it was based on the Akira class from FC, not to mention things like ‘photonic torpedoes,’ ‘phase pistols,’ and ‘polarized hull plating,’ which were nothing more than buzzwords for photon torpedoes, phasers, and shields. And the use of things like communicators and tricorders weren’t all that different from their use in TOS, TMP and TNG. I would have preferred something more original and more primitive for a show taking place 100 years before TOS. To me, it was just more of the same, great production values notwithstanding. But since the show was produced by the same people who produced VOY, it felt little different to me than the latter show. It was just a different ship and crew, but it had distinctly the same feel.

 

[Christopher]

I wasn’t talking about the production design. I was talking about the hero ship of the Earth Starfleet looking like it was based on the Akira class from FC

While that is what the producers asked, I don't think the results could be more different. I hate the Akira, which is a bloated hunchback of a ship, but the NX class is much sleeker and more appealing. They resemble each other about as much as a race horse resembles a hippo -- same general structure, but profoundly different in detail and aesthetics. The design team took the bizarre instruction they were given and turned it into something much better.

, not to mention things like ‘photonic torpedoes,’ ‘phase pistols,’ and ‘polarized hull plating,’ which were nothing more than buzzwords for photon torpedoes, phasers, and shields.

Uhh, you were talking about creating a "distinct visual world." That's what I was responding to. No fair moving the goalposts. This is a thread about spaceship art, not critiquing entire series.

 

[Dukhat]

While that is what the producers asked, I don't think the results could be more different. I hate the Akira, which is a bloated hunchback of a ship, but the NX class is much sleeker and more appealing. They resemble each other about as much as a race horse resembles a hippo -- same general structure, but profoundly different in detail and aesthetics. The design team took the bizarre instruction they were given and turned it into something much better.

Actually, what happened was that the producers wanted the actual Akira class CGI model as the NX class Enterprise. Doug Drexler, rightly understanding how stupid that would have been, lobbied to change it to what we eventually got. And I’m not putting down Drexler’s work. He indeed changed to ship to look more suitable to the time period of the show. But the root design of the ship is still unmistakeable. That’s what I have a problem with. That’s not Drexler’s fault, it’s the fault of the short-sighted producers of the show.

Uhh, you were talking about creating a "distinct visual world." That's what I was responding to. No fair moving the goalposts. This is a thread about spaceship art, not critiquing entire series.

So? I was responding to your response of mine, about there not being enough world-building. That’s fine if all you want to talk about is ship design, but I’m going to explain myself if asked about something I wrote. The ‘distinct visual world’ is more than just the design of the ship.

 

[Christopher]

Actually...

Followed by a bunch of stuff that I already know and don't need mansplained to me. Let's not drag this thread off topic any further.

 

[Dukhat]

Followed by a bunch of stuff that I already know and don't need mansplained to me. Let's not drag this thread off topic any further.

Sorry, I didn’t realize this was your own personal thread topic. Oh wait, it’s not. So why don’t you quit with the attitude?

 

[David cgc]

Followed by a bunch of stuff that I already know and don't need mansplained to me.

Seriously, it's not just when anyone is being condescending to anyone.

 

[TJ Sinclair]

February: They look like variants of the Hornet-class from SOTL2018, "Angel's Gate" by Bill Krause. USS Hornet link: https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hornet_(NCC-9700)

The Hornet has a very different secondary hull, more like Todd G's old Akula.

After some more searching, I found out it's Bill Krause's Shangri-La class, here and here.

April: I count the Balmung as an Ambassador-class variant, <unknown>-subclass. I'd love for Eaglemoss to make a model of it.

IIRC, the artist envisioned it as class bridging the gap between the Excelsior and the Ambassador, so I can't quite accept it as an Ambassador variant, though it does bear a resemblance to Andy Probert's original (and my preferred) Ambassador design (aka the Narendra class variant).

July: Not A Real SOTL Calendar Without Enterprise+Earth's atmosphere+US airplanes.TM

"Tomorrow Is Yesterday" is a great TOS episode, and the occasional image playing with Enterprise juxtaposed with 20th/21st century craft is nice, but there's been far too many TIY images in the calendars, IMO. I really am tired of it. How about something less US-centric, please?

December: Depending on source, the pre-refit Miranda was also just called Miranda. Some old RPG stuff either calls the prefit the Anton-class, or says the Reliant was the first refit and is therefore Miranda-class, Reliant-subclass.

I'm more interested in coming up with a class name specifically for the inverted concept version, the "upside down" Reliant that Eaglemoss produced and is in this image. It's not an Anton, Miranda, Reliant or Avenger, it's gotta be it's own thing, especially if we're going to keep seeing it from now on (and I hope we do).

The asteroid facility with the two blue rings on either side - that's reminiscent on "Planet of the Titans" artwork and the first ST: Discovery teaser, innit?

Absolutely. That style of asteroid base also made its way into a Phase II vignette, as a homage to the McQuarrie art.

I wouldn't mind seeing a TMP-era Crossfield refit that's basically the Planet of the Titans version of the Enterprise all fleshed out and finished.

Fingers crossed for California and Parliament class images next year. And I'm always hoping for more original designs like the Phalanx and Insignia.

 

[David cgc]

"Tomorrow Is Yesterday" is a great TOS episode, and the occasional image playing with Enterprise juxtaposed with 20th/21st century craft is nice, but there's been far too many TIY images in the calendars, IMO. I really am tired of it. How about something less US-centric, please?

John Eaves loves fighter jets and starships (and pin-ups, but that never made it into the calendar, knock wood). It’s more than a little odd that we’ve gotten multiple years featuring his series of paintings of the TOS Enterprise and the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds flying in formation (especially since it’s not “Tomorrow is Yesterday,” just a mash-up on his own), but I guess you get indulged after you’ve designed two Enteprises.

 

[Markonian]

@TJ Sinclair, I enjoy your observations! Really cool find with the Shangri-La class.

I see now what you mean with a name for the upside-down Miranda. I'm trying to think of something clever or punny but drawing a blank. On a related note, one RPG (after losing their license) identified the USS Voyager NCC-73602 concept with the unseen Bradbury-class from TNG "Force of Nature". I'd love to see that officialized in some fashion.

Bill Krause's image: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10209251174074605&set=pcb.10209251176074655

Can anyone make out the name of the NCC-2577?
Edit: got it, it's the USS Surprise! https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tre...ml?sid=af8f9196e8fce4d0eedeb3c708240772#p9746
I suppose its coincidental and not related to the German Star Trek spoof series Unser (T)Raumschiff/ (T)Raumschiff Surprise.

 

[trampledamage]

Sorry, I didn’t realize this was your own personal thread topic. Oh wait, it’s not. So why don’t you quit with the attitude?

Attitude or not, this is a thread about the calendar so the two of you were pulling it off topic to have a back and forth about the producers' intent in Enterprise, so Christopher is not wrong to suggest it stop.