Spoilers Sherlock Series 4 Discussion Thread

[The Nth Doctor]

I was going to ask the same thing, but I think I may see his reasoning.

When last we saw Mary, in the ending of the Christmas special, she wasn't obviously pregnant. She could have been, three or four months maybe, but she didn't show. Over the course of this episode, we see Mary have at least the last five or six months of her pregnancy, and then the baby ages to about four or five months.

So, a year from the beginning to the end of "The Six Thatchers" is reasonable.

Actually, that's not true. Mary was very visibly pregnant during Christmas and needed John's help out of the armchair in front of the fireplace.

John says he blames Sherlock for breaking his vow, but if I were him I'd be more angry about the fact that Sherlock seemingly provoked Mrs Norbury into pulling her gun and firing by saying she acted out of jealousy and by mocking her alcoholism, loneliness, and predictability. So she tried to be "unpredictable" by opening fire, even though it wasn't really unpredictable at all. Mary kept trying to tell Sherlock to stop, but he wouldn't listen.

Except John wasn't there during the confrontation, so unless Mycroft or Lestrade told John the exact details of how the confrontation played out, I think John's anger is and should be more focused on breaking his vow.

 

[Christopher]

Except John wasn't there during the confrontation, so unless Mycroft or Lestrade told John the exact details of how the confrontation played out, I think John's anger is and should be more focused on breaking his vow.

Except, again, it makes no sense to lay that onus on Sherlock, as though he were the only one with agency and Mary were just some valuable object in his charge. Mary was totally capable of taking care of herself without some big strong man to do it. It was her decision, made with John's participation and agreement, to go to the aquarium ahead of John. It was her free choice as a responsible adult, as was her choice to sacrifice herself to save Sherlock. John should know perfectly well that Mary bore the responsibility for her own actions, and reacting as though she were some helpless damsel in distress whose safety was exclusively in Holmes's hands is indefensibly sexist and insulting to her memory.

 

[DimesDan]

We sust watched it and both liked it very much.

 

[cultcross]

Watched it on catch-up today and, broadly, enjoyed it although it was one of the weirder episodes. Certainly the 'mystery' element of the show is long since gone - I called the basic solution to the Six Thatchers almost straight away and I don't think I deserve many medals for that. Sherlock's belief that it would take a Moriarty level master criminal to do something so irreverent is quite indefensible in light of the, in the end, quite simple solution. The dead guy in the car was more Jonathon Creek than Sherlock, and the connection between the titular mystery and Mary is one of the biggest coincidences the show has ever done (as I understood it anyway, by sheer unplanned happenstance the smasher of the Iron Lady's delicate cranium happens to steal one from a house [nay, a room] where Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, the husband and close friend of the very person he is searching for, would be only a week later, and then Sherlock would not only notice unprompted, but take on the case as a personal obsession leading to a confrontation between said smasher and one of only two people on Earth who would connect the memory stick with initials on with the person he is looking for?).
'John hates Sherlock' has been done, and with so few episodes in this show, it's been done all too recently.
The character interaction remains the highlight of the show, and I still enjoy this aspect - the bit with the balloon made me laugh out loud, and most of the interaction between Sherlock and Greg was great. But the plots in this show are getting increasingly... difficult to swallow.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

John says he blames Sherlock for breaking his vow, but if I were him I'd be more angry about the fact that Sherlock seemingly provoked Mrs Norbury into pulling her gun and firing by saying she acted out of jealousy and by mocking her alcoholism, loneliness, and predictability. So she tried to be "unpredictable" by opening fire, even though it wasn't really unpredictable at all. Mary kept trying to tell Sherlock to stop, but he wouldn't listen.

That's what you took from the scene?

Sherlock clearly knew she was going to be "unprecitable" by shooting one of them. He made sure he would be the target so as to keep his vow by taunting her. He had no way of knowing Mary had Flash-level superhuman reflexes and could jump in front of a bullet that's already been fired.

Either way it doesn't matter as John wasn't there to witness the events at all. All he saw was Mary dying from a gunshot wound and saw the smoking gun in Norbury's hand. That's all the info he had, and he decided to put all his blame on Sherlock for completely irrational reasons (nevermind that he had made a similar vow to her, but grief is like that).

My only problem is that John continued to feel that way long after the moment had passed, even after I'm sure he was told the story of what happened by the others who were present. That's just John being a dick. A grieving dick, but a dick nonetheless.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

...the connection between the titular mystery and Mary is one of the biggest coincidences the show has ever done (as I understood it anyway, by sheer unplanned happenstance the smasher of the Iron Lady's delicate cranium happens to steal one from a house [nay, a room] where Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, the husband and close friend of the very person he is searching for, would be only a week later, and then Sherlock would not only notice unprompted, but take on the case as a personal obsession leading to a confrontation between said smasher and one of only two people on Earth who would connect the memory stick with initials on with the person he is looking for?).

Yeah, that bothered me as well, especially considering what Mycroft (or at least Sherlock's version of Mycroft in his mind palace) said about coincidences in "The Signs of Three."

Speaking of coincidences, I realized earlier today that both times Sherlock has a vision of Redbeard (or at least when we see Sherlock having a vision of him) occurred during unconsciousness instigated by Mary: First, when she shot him in "His Last Vow" and then in this episode when she drugged him. Probably a coincidence, utilizing a temporary moment of hallucinatory unconsciousness, but nonetheless the connection leapt out at me.

 

[Beagleman]

That was rather grim. I miss the fun of series 1 and 2...

 

[Velocity]

Sherlock is always claiming to be a high functioning sociopath which I guess was why the writers had him shoot the Other sociopath instead of using his intellect to come up with a different solution. But his showing pictures of Rosie to Mycroft seems to make him less of a sociopath unless he was just trying to aggravate his brother. I liked the Mary character because she had an interesting exciting persona that Doyle couldn't have conceived. Mrs. Hudson is also more interesting in this series than in the books. She is hilarious, especially when taking Watson to task for writing her in his blogs without any words beyond asking about tea. The ending was disappointing and weak. Why would a new mother sacrifice herself? Did she know her dear husband was a hound dog or did she even suspect? I hope the next episode isn't angsty.

 

[Beagleman]

Did she know her dear husband was a hound dog or did she even suspect?

I didn't like that storyline at all, not that I am against flawed characters (hell, look at why I love this show), but that seemed totally out of character and simply added to add more drama.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Actually, that's not true. Mary was very visibly pregnant during Christmas and needed John's help out of the armchair in front of the fireplace.

I'll take your word for it as I genuinely don't remember Mary being great with child aboard the airplane at the end of TAB, which I think is the only part we can definitely say "happened."

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'll take your word for it as I genuinely don't remember Mary being great with child aboard the airplane at the end of TAB, which I think is the only part we can definitely say "happened."

I watched all of the episodes in preparation for the new season, so the image popped up in my mind right away. I reviewed "His Last Vow" just before writing that post to make sure.

 

[intrinsical]

why does Watson blame Sherlock for Mary's death?

I thought it was obvious. Sherlock's pride and hubris drove him to gloat at Mrs Norbury, deducing her entire story just to prove he is smarter than she is. The only thing she had left to counter Sherlock, to prove he couldn't anticipate every possible move is to shoot him. To Watson, Mary died because of Sherlock's pride.

Even Sherlock realized this after the fact and asked Mrs Hudson to tell him "Norbury" if he ever becomes cocky again.

 

[The Wormhole]

Erm... the wedding was meant to be in May (the invitation in TSoT clearly says so), but I think that got retconned with HLV (and John's blog) to August so to better fit in Sherlock's recovery with Christmas (at least that's my explanation for this obvious inconsistency), and at Christmas and the tarmac scene in HLV Mary was pretty obviously far along. I'd say she was due in February, March at the latest. TAB got ignored in TST, there was not a single reference - the oblique one about Sherlock's drug use right in the beginning could also refer to his drug use in HLV...

Trying to peg down the dates in the show is, troublesome to say the least. What definitely doesn't help matters is the montage at the beginning of The Abominable Bride recapping the series places each season as taking place in the year in which it aired. However, assuming the main portion of the story for A Study in Pink takes place in January 2010, than this should mean The Reichenbach Falls takes place July 2011 (18 months after Sherlock and Watson first met), though TAB's montage dates season 2 as 2012.

 

[Christopher]

I thought it was obvious. Sherlock's pride and hubris drove him to gloat at Mrs Norbury, deducing her entire story just to prove he is smarter than she is. The only thing she had left to counter Sherlock, to prove he couldn't anticipate every possible move is to shoot him. To Watson, Mary died because of Sherlock's pride.

First, as several people have already pointed out, Watson didn't enter the room until after that. He wasn't there to witness any of what you just described.

And second, the point of my rhetorical question is that it's completely sexist to assume that Sherlock was the only person in the room whose decisions mattered. Mary chose to go. We saw her and her husband discuss, together, which of them should go to the Aquarium to meet Sherlock, and she and John mutually agreed that it should be her. She was an adult human being who made her own choices that led her to that situation, and focusing exclusively on Sherlock's choices is dismissive of Mary's personhood, her agency as a responsible adult. The whole idea of the "vow" is condescending in the first place -- the notion that an ex-CIA agent and highly trained mercenary/assassin was so helpless that she depended on the protection of some drawing-room detective is just stupid. She was the most qualified protector in that room, and she made a choice to protect Sherlock. He was the victim in that situation, the vulnerable one who needed rescue, and she was the hero who chose to give her life to save him. That's the fair, non-sexist interpretation, the one that honors her as a person.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

Apparently Netflix has bought the rights to the fourth series from BBC in large parts of Europe, including Finland and Sweden. In total 150 old tv-companies around the world were left out according to SVT, Swedish public tv-company. Finnish public broadcasting company YLE, that has always had the un-official first buy option on BBC series, might feel a little bit hurt right now.

But as a viewer and Netflix-subscriber I'm happy. Sure, YLE did show this year's Doctor Who Christmas special day after the airing on BBC, but mostly we've had to wait multiple days, weeks or even months for new episodes of Sherlock or other series to air in Finland. Netflix releases Sherlock less than a day after BBC premiere.

 

[Saul]

It seemed to a drama heavy episode in the second part with the fun mysteries brushed out of the way in part one. Can't say I didn't like the change in tone and found it equally gripping. The parts of less interest were of Mary but I always felt her character never fully worked after the twist at the end of season 3.

 

[Claudia]

And second, the point of my rhetorical question is that it's completely sexist to assume that Sherlock was the only person in the room whose decisions mattered. Mary chose to go. We saw her and her husband discuss, together, which of them should go to the Aquarium to meet Sherlock, and she and John mutually agreed that it should be her. She was an adult human being who made her own choices that led her to that situation, and focusing exclusively on Sherlock's choices is dismissive of Mary's personhood, her agency as a responsible adult. The whole idea of the "vow" is condescending in the first place -- the notion that an ex-CIA agent and highly trained mercenary/assassin was so helpless that she depended on the protection of some drawing-room detective is just stupid. She was the most qualified protector in that room, and she made a choice to protect Sherlock. He was the victim in that situation, the vulnerable one who needed rescue, and she was the hero who chose to give her life to save him. That's the fair, non-sexist interpretation, the one that honors her as a person.

Agree with all of this.

Except for one thing: One good/selfless deed doesn't make a hero. Mary made a lot of choices that led to the aquarium, and most of them were questionable. And yes, I'm still hung up over her decision to shoot Sherlock in the chest back in HLV. Incapacitate okay (like she did this time), but kill... no. So, instead of going down the hero-lane, I'd rather think of her decision to put herself into harm's way as her finally taking her fate into her own hands again after failing with Magnussen and then sitting around for months doing nothing (which was another rather strange point of HLV), waiting for others to act.

 

[Christopher]

Except for one thing: One good/selfless deed doesn't make a hero. Mary made a lot of choices that led to the aquarium, and most of them were questionable.

True. Either way, the point is that it was her choices that mattered, and John's failure to recognize that is chauvinistic.

And yes, I'm still hung up over her decision to shoot Sherlock in the chest back in HLV.

I honestly have no memory of that whatsoever.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

And yes, I'm still hung up over her decision to shoot Sherlock in the chest back in HLV.

I honestly have no memory of that whatsoever.

I envy you.

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Then, in the hospital, he uses his mind palace to force himself back into action after being shot in the chest.

I have had the suspicion since that moment that everything we've seen has been in Sherlock's mind palace.

 

[Christopher]

Oh, that. I remember him being shot and doing the mind-palace thing, because it was so implausible and overdone, but I didn't remember that she'd been the shooter. The show is so obsessed with stylization and gimmickry and shock twists that the characters and motivations get kind of lost in the noise.