Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

[Shatnertage]

I now got see not just any man, but...

"Our Man Bashir"

Who would have guessed that Alexander Siddig can do a pretty good James Bond? That part of the story was entertaining enough. And there was a little Bashir/Garak rivalry going here, kind of like one of those old Reses Peanut Butter Cup commercials: "Hey, you got your fantasy in my old job!" "You got your old job in my fantasy!"

The worst thing you can say about this episode is that, after the release of Austin Powers, it's a lot less funny.

It's kind of funny, of course, but not an out-and-out comedy where you'll be rolling on the floor laughing.

I appreciated where they were going with this one, but I just don't think they got there. Though it was another reminder of just how much better everyone looks when they're not wearing their regular uniforms. If they let Sisko run around in a Nehru jacket all the time, he'd be so badass he'd be off the scale. Ditto for Bashir in a tux.

While I've got your attention, here's something I've been wondering....

In the "new" opening credits, there's a starship docked at one of the upper pylons. It looks kind of like somebody stepped on a Galaxy Class. What class is it? It's not really a Galaxy, is it? The nacelles look far too low, although I guess that could be a perspective thing.

 

[Harvey]

Are you talking about the Nebula Class?

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nebula_class

 

[Admiral Shran]

Indeed it is a Nebula Class ship. They featured prominently in episodes like TNG: The Wounded (which introduced the Cardassains) and DS9: Second Sight (where Sisko falls in love with a ghost woman ).

Our Man Bashir is a good episode. It might not be as funny as it could be, but it's a damn good shot. The back and forth between Bashir and Garak, of course, make the episode.

"Kiss the girl, get the key. They never taught me that in the Obisidan Order."

 

[Shatnertage]

That's it! Nebula Class.

I've watched "Homefront" but don't have time to write it up. I was pleasantly surprised by it, since InvestigationTrek isn't usually my bag.

 

[JayOwl]

Review soon?

I'm enjoying these.

 

[Athena28]

I now got see not just any man, but...

"Our Man Bashir"

Who would have guessed that Alexander Siddig can do a pretty good James Bond? That part of the story was entertaining enough. And there was a little Bashir/Garak rivalry going here, kind of like one of those old Reses Peanut Butter Cup commercials: "Hey, you got your fantasy in my old job!" "You got your old job in my fantasy!"

Innocuous, fun ep.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Thank God Sisko didn't have a big a role as Picard/Janeway, since I found the actor so insufferable.

 

[Shatnertage]

Quite fittingly, I'm back to talk about...

"Homefront"

I say fittingly because dad duties are taking an increasing amount of time for me, which is a good thing for me, but a bad thing for quest to watch and comment on a show that went off the air over a decade ago. Priorities, priorities, priorities.

Looking at the blurb for the episode, I thought it was going to be standard InvestigationTrek, with Sisko and Odo tracking down whoever planted the bomb and, after a few red herrings, finding out that it's really a) a Changeling disguised as an admiral b) and admiral under the influence of some [TECH], or c) an admiral who believes the Changeling threat is so great it justifies the bombing. It'd be kind of like Scooby Doo but with a minute or so of preachy moralizing at the end.

I was wrong, and this episode actually got me thinking.

First, I'll share that the entire premise for the episode--that Sisko and Odo are recalled to Earth to head up Starfleet security because of a possibly imminent Dominion invasion--is ridiculous (in-universe, of course). Assuming that they've been doing an good job with security on DS9, which is going to be the first front in the invasion, why pull them away? Why leave DS9 leaderless on the brink of a possible attack? If I didn't know better, I'd say a Changeling infiltrator had ordered Sisko away from DS9 to make it an easier target.

On the other hand, if you're a cynical bastard who thinks they were just "promoting" Sisko because they thought he was incompetent to lead the station in the face of a possible attack, then they've just given him an even more important job, which also doesn't make sense.

For the purposes of the show, however, I'm willing to accept that the producers wanted to tell an Earth-bound story, and the viewers would have cared much about watching Admiral Leyton running the show for an hour.

Something I find funny is Joseph Sisko. Did you know he's from New Orleans? Between the alligator, the gumbo, and the jambalaya, I never would have guessed. It's just funny that in the Trekverse Sisko can't just have a tuna melt for lunch--it's got to be something demonstratively showy.

Although Janeway had PB&J sandwiches for dinner at least once, so who knows?

This is another episode that has a much greater resonance post 9/11 and seems eerily prescient. If anyone's traveling for Thanksgiving, you know what I mean. Joe Sisko makes some very good points, too, although the Leyton Changeling proves that there really is a threat. So do you ruin "paradise" by militarizing it or just let it fall to pieces? The Federation president with the interesting head seemed to favor the latter, and both Sisko and Leyton favored the former.

Though I've got some trouble believing there was one starship--the Lakota--in proximity to earth, particularly during the worst crisis (besides the Borg) in a century.

I'm interested in seeing where they take this.

 

[Admiral Shran]

First, I'll share that the entire premise for the episode--that Sisko and Odo are recalled to Earth to head up Starfleet security because of a possibly imminent Dominion invasion--is ridiculous (in-universe, of course). Assuming that they've been doing an good job with security on DS9, which is going to be the first front in the invasion, why pull them away? Why leave DS9 leaderless on the brink of a possible attack? If I didn't know better, I'd say a Changeling infiltrator had ordered Sisko away from DS9 to make it an easier target.

It makes sense to me to have Sisko and Odo recalled to Earth. Look at it from Starfleet's perspective.

First, there's a possible clocked Dominion fleet already in the Alpha Quadrant which for all intents and purposes appears to be completely bypassing Deep Space Nine. Second, there's an explosion during a high level diplomatic conference on Earth. Third, there's known Changling activity taking place on Earth, activity that has been linked to the explosion and a possible destablization of the immediate area. The only logical conclusion is that the possible Dominion fleet is going to attack Earth, not the station.

It makes sense that they want the man who has the most experience with the Dominion to be on what they believe will be the front lines. Look at it this way - if you believed that an attack on the United States was immiment and there was reasonable evidence to assume that the hammer would fall first on New York City, would you really want the man best able to fight the battle to be in Denver?

Besides, at this point, what's ultimately more important to the security of the Federation - the station or Earth? I'd say Earth.

This is another episode that has a much greater resonance post 9/11 and seems eerily prescient. If anyone's traveling for Thanksgiving, you know what I mean. Joe Sisko makes some very good points, too, although the Leyton Changeling proves that there really is a threat. So do you ruin "paradise" by militarizing it or just let it fall to pieces? The Federation president with the interesting head seemed to favor the latter, and both Sisko and Leyton favored the former.

Joseph Sisko's speech about the erosion of civil liberties and Sisko's speech to the President about the need for security after the failure of the power gird are two excellent pieces of writing, IMHO.

I agree more with Joseph - the security measures that Starfleet is putting in place do go too far. Safeguarding Starfleet and Federation facilites? Okay. Bloodscreening Starfleet personnel? Okay. Forcing family members to undergo the same procedure? Not okay. Like Joseph said, he didn't take an oath to Starfleet, just like Jake and Sisko's sister didn't. There comes a point where you have to draw the line.

However, Sisko's plea to the president about the actual threat of the Dominion was very convicing and I think Brooks nailed it in his delivery. When he starts talking about how the Jem'Hadar will offer no quarter, take no prisoners and will wage the kind of war Earth hasn't seen in centuries, if I were in the president's shoes, I also might be convinced to order armed Starfleet troops into the streets.

Though I've got some trouble believing there was one starship--the Lakota--in proximity to earth, particularly during the worst crisis (besides the Borg) in a century.

I agree that it's absolutely ridiculous for the capital of the Federation to be so lightly defended. However, it's not like it comes out of left field. Earth has consistently been shown to be virtually defenseless in Trek. In The Motion Picture, Earth is in danger of destruction from V'Ger and the Enterprise is literally the only ship in range (and is only available because it just so happens to be in the process of being upgraded in Earth orbit). In The Voyage Home, Earth literally has no defenses when the Whale Probe shows up. In Generations, the Enterprise-B is explictily said to be the only ship in Earth's solar system. In The Best of Both Worlds, the only defense is something called the Mars Defense Perimeter, which the Borg blow through like they're swatting flies (something I honestly think the Dominion would do as well) and there's no ships to meet them once they get to Earth. And, this trend continues in future episodes and movies.

All in all, Homefront is one of my favorites of the sereis, and part II only gets better.

 

[intrinsical]

Homefront was supposed to be the season three cliffhanger finale, culminating in a Vulcan transport getting fired upon in Earth orbit. I guess the powers that be didn't like the idea that Starfleet and the Federation isn't perfect, so Homefront was toned down and shifted to the middle of season four.

 

[Canadave]

In The Best of Both Worlds, the only defense is something called the Mars Defense Perimeter, which the Borg blow through like they're swatting flies (something I honestly think the Dominion would do as well) and there's no ships to meet them once they get to Earth.

It at least makes some sense here, since Starfleet basically mustered every ship in range to make a last stand at Wolf 359, and we all know how that went.

 

[Shatnertage]

I have finally found...

"Paradise Lost"


This one has me confused. So there's a bombing in Antwerp that's proven to be the work of the Dominion. And the response of the hawks in Starfleet is to turn the lights out, because that's going to make it possible for the civilians to accept a military dictatorship. Huh?

It seems the writers of DS9 really, really have a thing about coups and military dictatorships. This is at least the third coup or attempted coup I can recall: there's the Cardassian regime change and the (off-screen, and it actually never happened) Tzenkethi coup.

Is this the kind of thing that TheGodBen keeps a running count of in his thread?

So it turns out that they really did go with my option (C) from "Homefront," it was an admiral behind it all along. Although we've completely forgotten about bringing anyone to justice for the Antwerp bombing and are now trying to learn who turned the lights out.

I thought Avery Brooks and Brock Peters had some very good scenes together.

I also really liked the O'Brien Changeling. Very animated fellow, quite different from Odo and the Female Changeling. I wouldn't have minded drinking a few beers and throwing darts with him. After all, you already know he's a changeling who knows just about everything about Earth. Couldn't you learn something from him? Or at least have some fun?

Now that we've seen it's possible to get both false negatives and false positives, hopefully we've seen the last of blood screenings.

For this one, I'm more confused than anything else. I get the points the episode was making, but the plot and drama don't really do it for me.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

At least to me, those episodes seemed almost as moralizing as "Past Tense." Ooooh, military is teh EEEVULZ and so is ALL SECURITY. Better solutions could've been found all around.

 

[BlueStuff]

I've never been a fan of that two-parter.

 

[Sykonee]

It seems the writers of DS9 really, really have a thing about coups and military dictatorships. This is at least the third coup or attempted coup I can recall: there's the Cardassian regime change and the (off-screen, and it actually never happened) Tzenkethi coup.

Not to mention the Bajoran one during the Circle Trilogy.

 

[Shatnertage]

^ That's why we need a counter. I totally forgot about that coup, which was the focus of three good episodes.

 

[TheGodBen]

At least to me, those episodes seemed almost as moralizing as "Past Tense." Ooooh, military is teh EEEVULZ and so is ALL SECURITY. Better solutions could've been found all around.

Considering Sisko was also a military officer, and the story of the coup was Ron Moore's, a guy who intended to become a pilot in the US Navy until medical issues disqualified him, I seriously doubt that this episode was trying to preach the message that the military are evil.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I'm going to have to disagree with Nerys on this one as well. I think the episode shows that the military, like any organization, can have evil and corrupt people, but I don't think it's ultimately saying that the entire military is evil.

It's similar to the Michael J. Fox / Sean Penn movie Causalities of War, IMO. That movie is very anti-war and shows that soldiers can go way too far, but I don't think it's saying that all soldiers are evil bastards.

 

[intrinsical]

I think it was Rene Echevarria who said that these two episodes was about the danger of sacrificing freedom for a false sense of security/values of the Federation to purportedly "save" its way of life.

 

[Athena28]

Quite fittingly, I'm back to talk about...

"Homefront"

I say fittingly because dad duties are taking an increasing amount of time for me, which is a good thing for me, but a bad thing for quest to watch and comment on a show that went off the air over a decade ago. Priorities, priorities, priorities...

This was a thought-provoking ep.