They weren't integral in the slightest. Star Trek became a phenomenon in syndication well before there was any franchise to speak of.
Shatner speaks....
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They weren't integral in the slightest. Star Trek became a phenomenon in syndication well before there was any franchise to speak of.
That's not the first time I've heard that.
Good post, but that part alone sounds like a Seinfeld episode. Why do I keep imagining George Constanza complaining about someone not remembering him?
A small thing to had to that, wasn't Bill going through his first divorce during season 3? I'd imagine that would consume his mind a lot, not really feeling like chumming about the workplace with that going on. But I may be wrong there, but if about 33% of this time he has that turmoil going on, he may have been distant and unfriendly. He also had his father's death and funeral in the first season, that also can distract a person from being the office life of the party.
Does Walter ever do this? I've heard Doohan and of course George and Nichelle to a lesser extent, but not Walter. And if I had to pick of the 4 of them, he's the best actor, even though Chekov is possibly the worst character of the four of them, i.e. a comic relief type with everything invented in Russia and other silliness forced on him.
^^^ Apparently there was an episode of Shatner's "Raw Nerve" (which I never saw and don't know if it ever actually aired) that was recorded with Walter Koenig where the first question out of Shatner's mouth was something to the effect of, "So...Walter...What the fuck?" regarding "The Feud". IIRC, Walter actually admitted that he didn't know Shatner at all, never felt as mistreated and disrespected as the others said they were and was kind of bullied into acting negatively towards Shatner or risk being pushed out of the "2nd Tier Club" of Takei, Nichols and Doohan. I have no idea where I heard/read this, but it definitely stands out in my mind how manufactured a lot of this "outrage" was towards Shatner, and how it snowballed out of control over the years.
Arguably, outside the "big three", Koenig probably had the best career of the rest of them. Writer, director, continued acting as Bester in B5 (a great role for him) - he strikes me as someone who capitalized on his Trek creds rather than sitting back on his ass, telling the same tired old stories at the conventions and milking the residuals (if there were any) without much additional post-Trek effort.
Arguably, outside the "big three", Koenig probably had the best career of the rest of them. Writer, director, continued acting as Bester in B5 (a great role for him) - he strikes me as someone who capitalized on his Trek creds rather than sitting back on his ass, telling the same tired old stories at the conventions and milking the residuals (if there were any) without much additional post-Trek effort.
That much is true, with the caveat that he was quite well-known for a while as Denny Crane.
IIRC, Shatner and Nimoy and Kelley worked together on a daily basis on the original television series - the other actors did not, with Takei being a semi-regular guaranteed maybe half the episodes in a season and in practice came in one day every week or two to film the few scenes in which he'd appear.
Remove Doohan, Takei, Nicholls and Koenig. The series still roll on, as they were not crucial to its success. You could have swapped them out with other character actors of the period (matching the general demands of the part), and I seriously doubt the series would have missed a step.
Shatner and Takei did not work closely over the course of the three seasons, as Takei was not always on set, or in the episode. Next, his stint on The Green Berets pushed him to the edges due to his absence. Even on the animated series, Shatner and Takei never performed their voice parts together, so again, they were not real co-workers like full time employees.
Moving on to the movies, pay close attention to every scene where they are on screen together. Not only is it minimal, but during the course of a production, actors are not always relating to one another, off doing something else, or waiting for the next set up. Adding to that, if the relationship was job-related at best (weak as that was), how involved were Shatner and Takei in each others' professional or personal lives?
See Ssosmcin's post. Furthermore, Shatner--unlike any of his co-stars--was in high profile tv and movies, no matter the size of the part; from The Defender (Studio One with Ralph Bellamy and Steve McQueen) to Judgement at Nuremberg, he was on a level far above his future Star Trek "add ons," such as Takei.
If there was not serious interest / heat regarding the series, it would have died after season 1, or 2. Before the big syndication boom, Filmation Associates already had an interest in adapting the series as a cartoon, with talks starting in 1969. At the time, animated adaptations of TV or movies was usually reserved for productions with strong interest (otherwise, there would be no reason to invest money into a production no one cared about). It may not have enjoyed the ratings of The Beverly Hillbillies, but the interest was there.
Well, there's much documentation about the production of TOS, and the convention years to know who spent time trashing another, while the intended victim did not waste his time firing back.
Who comes off as bitter or hateful in that case?
True. He was on the rise, and in high profile productions for a reason.
Strong summary.
Well said.
That, and the realization that Kirk--as portrayed by Shatner--was one of the faces of the series, its promotion and merchandising. That spoke volumes, but the reason was easy to understand: it was due to Shatner's performance, & how the audience responded to the actor's investment into a character that turned out to be one of the most appealing in TV history up to that time, and certainly after the TOS years.
So, if Takei has a bone to pick, start with the audience. It was their support that turned the leads into big stars.
I have to admit I've never quite understood this idea some fans seem to have that, since their characters were pals on the show, the actors are under some kind of obligation to be pals IRL.
No obligation, but it's been popularized with the evolution of ensemble TV shows. Shows like Mission Impossible, Happy Days, Cheers, Friends (appropriately), etc. had casts that keep in touch to this day. It's not a rule, but their hangouts are pretty public. They also lasted much longer than TOS, so there's more time to bond.
TOS was not an ensemble, though all of its spinoffs were. I suspect that because we see crews like TNG and VOY etc. all chummy and such, that we get surprised that TOS wasn't like that behind the scenes. But just like those other shows, the spinoffs all had more work time to bond.
It's perfectly fine if TOS was just a job. I think sometimes we fans project what we want to see onto them, though. And friendships did indeed grow out of it: Takei and Koenig are BFFs, and we know about Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley. The two circles don't have to intersect, though Nimoy was a friend to all.
Some fans want to think that the good feelings they get from watching a tv series must automatically transfer to the performers' personal lives. It happens for some productions, but the opposite happens often (Jonas, you should know regarding "the movie star"). In situations where you have series stars and minor players who do not work together often, they are not always the best of friends, or even chummy beyond saying hello at the start of the day's work.
...then you have the vindictive types who feel something--a lot of somethings are owed to them (for no valid reason), either in the material, financial or emotional sense.
To Be Takei actually made me think less of George, who came across to me as being insensitive and sometimes callous.
What's most telling is he keeps inviting Bill to things after bashing him, then can feign being hurt when Bill doesn't show. Oh boo hoo hoo.
What's most telling is he keeps inviting Bill to things after bashing him, then can feign being hurt when Bill doesn't show. Oh boo hoo hoo.
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Well, I do understand why many fans want to believe the cast were pals or should have been. A lot of the reference material played up the comradeship and fun. David Gerrold called it the happiest set in Hollywood in his books, I think (I don't have them handy) and the blooper reels made it look like filming Star Trek was one three year long party. Only "the feud" between Shatner and Nimoy, which was really downplayed in the 70's, was kinda known. Gerrold also talked about some cast dissension about how some wanted more to do, which was quashed by Roddenberry writing "the letter." But, from what I recall, the tell all books were the real start of the complaints going public. I can't speak on what any of the cast might have said at conventions back then, I didn't go to any. But in print, it waited until the biographies.
Was Shatner an egotistical jerk? Maybe. If so, fine, Takei et al had a right to be pissed about it. But it was decades ago. I had a shitty time in high school, but I graduated in 1986. I'm not even slightly mad at anyone anymore. Not even the people I remember. Why?
I got over it. I lived my life. I moved on. Like a grown up.
Just sayin'.
Was Shatner an egotistical jerk? Maybe. If so, fine, Takei et al had a right to be pissed about it. But it was decades ago. I had a shitty time in high school, but I graduated in 1986. I'm not even slightly mad at anyone anymore. Not even the people I remember. Why?
I got over it. I lived my life. I moved on. Like a grown up.
Just sayin'.
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From what I've heard, they were more just a professional ensemble. They got along well and worked well together, but they didn't bond the way the TNG cast did. And that's fine. I think casts being friends outside of work is more the exception than the rule, anyway.
Alexander Siddig and Nana Visitor got divorced after the run of the show, but I have no idea if that was amicable or not. I'd imagine they have to get along to a certain extent, since they have a child together.
Well, if that is the case, I can see Shattner's point of view a bit clearer.
Yep. I felt the same after watching the documentary.
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Agreed.
You communicate better than I.
I think it is natural for folks to think co-stars are "pals". Your impressions of a person are made by way you see if them. I recall when I was younger I saw an interview with "The Professor" from Gilligan's island. He didn't even like science. It was weird to me - and disappointing - and an eye opener. Adam and Jamie (Myth Guys) actually took time out to address rumors about them hating each other and were not friends anymore. They basically revealed that they are not "pals" and never really were....but don't hate each other. They work together at the same job. They respect each other. But they don't "hang out" with each other.
As far as the convention appearances go in the 70's, I never heard negative things at appearances. In fact, I think you are right....didn't hear anything until the "tell alls". But I only went to a few conventions. The only one with Shattner - he cancelled (I always guessed it was a publicity stunt because they waited until we were all there before announcing it). It wasn't until after the movies I heard negative things. SO I naturally assumed that is were things fell off. *Shrug* It would be nice if folks just got along.
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I would love it if my favorite Trek stars were all chummy. I'm fine with professional, though. One can be professional, while maintaining a friendly atmosphere. It's the rancor we see between the second tier characters and Bill, that's what irks me, because when you look at the old footage, when you hear the producers and directors, and other personnel on set during the original series, it appears that everyone got alone fine, even if they weren't all best pals.
What they don't seem to realize is that if it were not for Bill Shatner, their jobs wouldn't have existed.
What they don't seem to realize is that if it were not for Bill Shatner, their jobs wouldn't have existed.
It's never sat well with me how Shatner keeps saying "I don't know the man" about Takei! I mean he worked with him for three years on Trek then six movies! Yes, maybe he didn't become friends with him or get to know the man inside and out but he can't say I never knew him! Why not just say we never hit it off or he doesn't really like me as such...although I agree it's Takei that is and has been the hostile force in the feud and continues to make the problem worse!
JB
JB
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