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SG-U – Water (1x06) - (Discuss – Grade | SPOILERS)

Grade Water

  • 10 Chevrons – Out of this Universe

    Votes: 2 2.2%
  • 9 Chevrons – Beyond the known Galaxies

    Votes: 7 7.5%
  • 8 Chevrons – In the Milky Way Galaxy

    Votes: 28 30.1%
  • 7 Chevrons – Within our Solar System

    Votes: 29 31.2%
  • 6 Chevrons – Haven’t got past Earth (Average)

    Votes: 17 18.3%
  • 5 Chevrons – No flying machines at all

    Votes: 6 6.5%
  • 4 Chevrons – Pre-Industrial

    Votes: 4 4.3%
  • 3 Chevrons – Dark Ages

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2 Chevron – Throwing rocks and stones

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1 Chevron – Cannot Establish Lock

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    93
I'm not too crazy about that aspect of Doctor Who; it's been pretty pointless and does seem like a gratuitous nod to the fad so far.


You keep misusing the word "fad."

fad
noun a temporary fashion, notion, manner of conduct, etc., esp. one followed enthusiastically by a group.
Origin:
1825–35; n. use of dial. fad to look after things, busy oneself with trifles, back formation from obs. faddle to play with, fondle. See fiddle
Related forms:
fadlike, adjective
Synonyms:
craze, vogue, rage.

A storytelling style that has existed since ancient Greece is hardly a "fad." What you're really referring to is simply a "style" or "technique" of storytelling, rather than a "fad."

One might suspect, of course, that you keep using the term because it has a negative connotation.
 
Of course he does. A storytelling style that's been popular in mainstream US culture for almost 30 years is hardly a "fad."
 
So Star Treks I, II, III, VI and VII are all awful too, I assume, as they, in turn, threatened Earth and totally changed the Enterprise, killed Spock, destroyed the Enterprise, killed off the Klingon Empire, and killed Kirk?
None of those retconned anything, there's no issue with threatening Earth or upgrading Enterprise, and the Klingon Empire was never killed off. As for killing off Kirk and Spock and destroying Enterprise, these things are bound to happen over the course of decades. Are you being deliberately obtuse here?

You can't like a great deal of the franchise, if your standards are really this set in stone. The cinematograhpy and approach may be literally 'darker' than it used to be in TOS, the subject matter really isn't - TNG, with its happy-happy-happy approach is the exception, not the rule.
The Trek franchise stayed pretty good up until the end, with some exceptions-- First Contact being the most obvious-- but it was definitely not headed in the right direction.

The show, particularly in the first season and most subsequent 'event' episodes, has been largely about the effects of the Time War and the fact The Doctor is the last of the time lords. If you can look past that plotline, you're being very selective here about what 'dark and gritty' stuff is just fine.
It has been brought up, of course, but not in depth. The Doctor has continued to be a hero, showing his preferred child-like persona on the outside while keeping centuries of depth, and his pain, mostly hidden on the inside, and helping those in need just on general principles; they haven't turned him into a grim avenger or moronic adolescent. They have always maintained a sense of wonder, both through the Doctor's love of life and his Companions' naivete. Small problems aside, Doctor Who is a textbook example of the right way to revive a classic franchise.

With the exception of the Borg on Voyager (but actually an exception because of the pansy-assed lighthearted way they treated the Federation's greatest threat, not any 'dark' aspects), those are some of the best things Trek has ever done. The DS9 war arc, First Contact, and the removal of that horribly childish barrier to conflict and drama in the 24th century. It brought back the spirit of the original series, that we are strong despite our weaknesses, rather than that we have none.
The DS9 War Arc was very well done, but inappropriate for Trek; First Contact was absolutely horrible (except for the last twenty minutes or so) and the perfect example of what I'm talking about; and I have no idea what you mean by "childish barrier."

Of course he does. A storytelling style that's been popular in mainstream US culture for almost 30 years is hardly a "fad."
Of course it's a fad. I'm not talking about something that has been around since Ancient Greece or a 30-year-old storytelling style. I'm talking about pop culture tropes that have been used increasingly, and with greater extremity, since the early 80s. And it can't have much more life to it, because how much more extreme can it get than torture porn and nuBSG? :rommie:
 
None of those retconned anything, there's no issue with threatening Earth or upgrading Enterprise, and the Klingon Empire was never killed off.

Oh noez! Changing continuity? HOW DARK AND GRITTY. Let's just ignore the eleventy million other times that Star Trek has roundly contradicted itself for the sake of telling a story.

And the Klingon Empire didn't get "wiped out" in Trek XI either. 47 ships were destroyed off-screen, which is about as many ships as Starfleet lost to the Borg in TBoBW. Again, you keep misrepresenting what actually happened in the film to support your foregone conclusion. I might say you should actually watch the movie before continuing to spout off factually inaccurate arguments, but I've suggested that before...

As for killing off Kirk and Spock and destroying Enterprise, these things are bound to happen over the course of decades.

So's the large-scale loss of life. As has been pointed out, it's happened before in Star Trek and it will all happen again.

Are you being deliberately obtuse here?

Are you? Because you keep dodging and weaving to pretend that your opinions are in any way consistent.

By the way, what constitutes "dark and gritty" to you, anyway? Sometimes it's a visual style, sometimes it's characterization, sometimes it's acting. Other times, it's background and/or plot points, and now you seem to be adding continuity changes themselves to your list. By the time you're done there won't be anything left that isn't classed as dark and gritty in some manner.

The Doctor has continued to be a hero, showing his preferred child-like persona on the outside while keeping centuries of depth, and his pain, mostly hidden on the inside, and helping those in need just on general principles; they haven't turned him into a grim avenger or moronic adolescent.

I seriously hope I'm misreading what you're saying here, because it sounds like you're extolling the virtues of the Doctor keeping his emotional pain locked up inside instead of, you know, expressing it or facing it somehow. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you're heading in the direction of making the anti-emotional "emo" argument that others have used before. Because heaven forbid people who lost everything or suffered a severe trauma be unstable or emotional.
 
Oh noez! Changing continuity? HOW DARK AND GRITTY. Let's just ignore the eleventy million other times that Star Trek has roundly contradicted itself for the sake of telling a story.
No, changing continuity is not dark and gritty, although it's usually ill advised. What we're talking about is a reboot that fundamentally changes the tone and character of a long-standing story into something darker and grittier.

And the Klingon Empire didn't get "wiped out" in Trek XI either. 47 ships were destroyed off-screen, which is about as many ships as Starfleet lost to the Borg in TBoBW. Again, you keep misrepresenting what actually happened in the film to support your foregone conclusion.
I never said the Klingon Empire was wiped out anywhere. I can't even keep track of what point you guys are trying to make, except contradicting me and pretending I said things I didn't. :rommie: Really, this isn't some big secret or arcane concept; it's a well-known cultural phenomenon that has been worsening for quite some time, and that even some of the original architects have grown sick of.

So's the large-scale loss of life. As has been pointed out, it's happened before in Star Trek and it will all happen again.
Yes, and, again, completely beside the point.

Are you? Because you keep dodging and weaving to pretend that your opinions are in any way consistent.
How am I not being consistent?

By the way, what constitutes "dark and gritty" to you, anyway? Sometimes it's a visual style, sometimes it's characterization, sometimes it's acting. Other times, it's background and/or plot points
You answered your own question. It's all or a combination of these things. What it is fundamentally is some level of torture porn; the grim adolescent outlook of unrelenting negativity. Since you once gave me a link to a page that defined it, I think you know what it is. ;)

and now you seem to be adding continuity changes themselves to your list. By the time you're done there won't be anything left that isn't classed as dark and gritty in some manner.
I never said continuity changes apply.

I seriously hope I'm misreading what you're saying here, because it sounds like you're extolling the virtues of the Doctor keeping his emotional pain locked up inside instead of, you know, expressing it or facing it somehow. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you're heading in the direction of making the anti-emotional "emo" argument that others have used before. Because heaven forbid people who lost everything or suffered a severe trauma be unstable or emotional.
I have no idea what an anti-emotional "emo" argument is. The characterization of the Doctor is consistent with his history. I said what I said: That they haven't used the near-genocide of the Time Lords to turn him into a grim avenger or moronic adolescent or otherwise fashionably "edgy."
 
Good solid episode for me. I especially liked Greer's line about being able to invent things too, and Eli's response that they should really work togeather :lol:

I notice a few people still refering to Chloe as the ship's tramp? Have I missed something because from where I'm sitting she's slept with one guy, and actually more than just a one night stand. How does this make her a tramp?

I think TJ might end up being one of my favourite characters, not just because she's hot but she seems very grounded into the bargain. Still doubt I'd care if Chloe, Scott, or Ming Na brought the farm.

In a lot of ways SG:U reminds me of Enterprise with its back to basics approach, only thankfully thus far they're making a much better fist of it, IMO.
 
Re: SG-U

I notice a few people still refering to Chloe as the ship's tramp? Have I missed something because from where I'm sitting she's slept with one guy, and actually more than just a one night stand. How does this make her a tramp?

You get it. If not this is why. Eli stands in for us, the SyFy geek audience. Because she choose Scott over Eli, over one of us, she must have some kind of problem. It couldn't be that she is cut off from home alone except for a stone visit in someone elses body. Nope she must be a tramp, slut, etc. A real balanced woman would be with me, I mean with Eli.
 
Re: SG-U

I notice a few people still refering to Chloe as the ship's tramp? Have I missed something because from where I'm sitting she's slept with one guy, and actually more than just a one night stand. How does this make her a tramp?

You get it. If not this is why. Eli stands in for us, the SyFy geek audience. Because she choose Scott over Eli, over one of us, she must have some kind of problem. It couldn't be that she is cut off from home alone except for a stone visit in someone elses body. Nope she must be a tramp, slut, etc. A real balanced woman would be with me, I mean with Eli.

:lol:

Ah, now I see it...what a whore! ;)
 
Re: SG-U

I haven't referred to her that way. If anything, I'd call her oblivious. She's investing a lot more in Scott than he's going to reciprocate, and everyone can see it but her.

I prefer it when female characters show some intelligence.
 
Well, regardless of the Eli thing, some of us, me included, are happy to call her a tramp for sleeping with some dude she just met ;)
 
Yeah but this is a woman under immense emotional stress, more so than everyone else. Not only has she been carted across the galaxies like everyone else, but she doesn't have a defined role within the group as yet (as I've said before though I can see her acting almost as the concience of the group) whereas the soldiers and scientists can at least fall back on training/job role. Oh and she watched her father die! Is it any wonder she wants some kind of connection? And people sleep with people they just met all the time. sometimes it's a one night stand, sometimes they have a fleeting relationship and sometimes they end up marrying and spending their lives togeather.

Now if she'd shagged Scott one episode, then Greer the next then Eli...well then she'd be a tramp. If anyone's the tramp here it's Lt Scott!
 
Chloe isn't a slut. She has some emotional issues, but she's not a slut.

Lt. Bangs-a-lot, on the other hand,...Yeah, I think he qualifies as a slut.
 
It's because this is the 1950s. She's either a virgin or a slut.

:lol:

Yeah, give her a break. Her dad just died, she's stranded millions of light years from home. It's not like she did a dance on the stripper pole for everyone.
 
Chloe isn't a slut. She has some emotional issues, but she's not a slut.

Lt. Bangs-a-lot, on the other hand,...Yeah, I think he qualifies as a slut.

Yeah I find it fascinating all the focus on Chloe when there's only one character we've seen sleeping around so far. And it wasn't her.
 
Well, regardless of the Eli thing, some of us, me included, are happy to call her a tramp for sleeping with some dude she just met ;)

I guess we just have high standards. They may be double standards, but they're high.

Are you two fucking kidding me?

High standards my ass. More like self-righteousness.

It's because this is the 1950s. She's either a virgin or a slut.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm glad those days are gone.
 
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