SG-U – Light (1x05) - (Discuss – Grade | SPOILERS)

[DWF]

How on earth...? What do they spend it on? There's been very little location shooting, no extensive CGI. It's mind boggling.

No, it's not mind boggling at all The West Wing could spend some 6 million per ep. without aliens, stargates and much location shooting.

Um...they had a very, very expensive (And large) cast. Expensive guest stars. Expensive location shooting in Washington, DC (for an LA-based show, which in turn is more expensive). The West Wing had great production values, and a pricey cast, it's not hard to see where the money went.

Stargate Universe has a cast mostly of unknowns, and for the most part has been shooting on their standing sets (in cheap Vancouver!) for the past five shows. And with one (count 'em, one) alien appearance so far...I'm still waiting to see where all the money goes.

The two biggest stars of The West Wing were Martin Sheen and Rob Lowe and Lowe left the show because he wasn't making the same amount as Sheen, other than those two the large cast were largely unknown as well. And Stargate Universe has already filmed in New Mexico and they've gone back to Las Vegas as well. And they use more CGI than most shows do.

Still there's alot of non sci-fi shows that cost alot more than many sci-fi shows do. Still a series shot in HD can't be cheap after they match up all the visual effects, the launch of the shuttle is a good example.

 

[Harvey]

Lowe didn't leave until the end of the fourth season. And just because he wasn't making as much as Sheen doesn't mean he wasn't making a lot of money per episode. And by that time, the rest of the cast had seen their paychecks balloon out, as well. Alan Alda, Jimmy Smits, John Spencer...these were not cheap names, either.

And you bring up that Stargate Universe is shot in HD, but that actually makes it even cheaper to shoot. Film-based series are much more expensive. That's why Enterprise made the shift from film to HDV in season four--it was a cost-cutting measure!

EDIT: A little Google searching uncovers the fact that The West Wing cost $6 million per episode...at the end of its run! Considering the cost (and size) of the cast at that point (season 7!), this isn't at all surprising. It's also not a fair number to compare the first season of Stargate Universe to, either.

 

[DWF]

And you bring up that Stargate Universe is shot in HD, but that actually makes it even cheaper to shoot. Film-based series are much more expensive. That's why Enterprise made the shift from film to HDV in season four--it was a cost-cutting measure!

Nice way to miss the point, Enterprise had their budget cut by Paramount and visual effects are still complicated as the shuttle launch example that I gave is one example of. And there's dozens of shows that film in HD, their budgets aren't affected that much by it.

 

[Harvey]

I don't think I've missed any point. I know exactly who cut the budget of Enterprise. The effect of that budgetary cut was to do things cheaper. The main differences being shooting on HDV instead of film and scoring some episodes with synthesized scores instead of using a full orchestra for every episode. Two things which, by the way, Stargate Universe is already doing.

As for the dozens of shows that are shot on HD, if you believe they're not affected by the change in format, you have no idea what you're talking about. Shows that are shot on film only print select takes. Shows that are shot on HDV tend to use everything in editing. And why is this? Because it is dramatically cheaper to shoot on high definition video than it is to shoot on film.

Your point about complicated visual effects is a fair one, and Stargate Universe certainly has its fair share of visual effects. But that is no different than either of the two previous series in the franchise, so it still doesn't indicate where the extra money is going.

You brought up the cost of The West Wing as an example of how expensive television can be, but as I've indicated, it's a bad example. The figure you used, the $6 million per episode figure, was the cost per episode during the seventh and final season. It was a popular series, both critically and commercially, and although it was on a ratings decline in its final season the numbers were far higher an audience than SGU will ever acheive. It's also the season when the cast's salaries were at their highest (Martin Sheen was earning upwards of $300,000 per episodes, and by the end of the series most of the other cast members were earning comparably high figures per episode), and the revolving door of cast members was at its largest. The guest cast was certainly more expensive than SGU's small compliment of unknowns. I have a hard time believing that Lou Diamond Phillips is earning significant pay per episode.

You also ignore that the series was shot in LA, which is far more expensive than shooting in Vancouver, which is used as a location for most series as a cost-cutting measure. There's a reason The X-Files didn't move to LA until David Duchovny threatened to walk, and a reason the lowly-budgeted second film limped back to shoot in Vancouver. Canada's cheaper, either due to the exchange rate, or, at times the dollar is weaker, generous government tax credits. And on top of that, The West Wing had complicated and expensive location shoots in Washington, DC that further increased costs. In only one episode out of five SGU has shown us expensive location shooting.

 

[DWF]

I don't think I've missed any point. I know exactly who cut the budget of Enterprise. The effect of that budgetary cut was to do things cheaper. The main differences being shooting on HDV instead of film and scoring some episodes with synthesized scores instead of using a full orchestra for every episode. Two things which, by the way, Stargate Universe is already doing.

As for the dozens of shows that are shot on HD, if you believe they're not affected by the change in format, you have no idea what you're talking about. Shows that are shot on film only print select takes. Shows that are shot on HDV tend to use everything in editing. And why is this? Because it is dramatically cheaper to shoot on high definition video than it is to shoot on film.

Your point about complicated visual effects is a fair one, and Stargate Universe certainly has its fair share of visual effects. But that is no different than either of the two previous series in the franchise, so it still doesn't indicate where the extra money is going.

You brought up the cost of The West Wing as an example of how expensive television can be, but as I've indicated, it's a bad example. The figure you used, the $6 million per episode figure, was the cost per episode during the seventh and final season. It was a popular series, both critically and commercially, and although it was on a ratings decline in its final season the numbers were far higher an audience than SGU will ever acheive. It's also the season when the cast's salaries were at their highest (Martin Sheen was earning upwards of $300,000 per episodes, and by the end of the series most of the other cast members were earning comparably high figures per episode), and the revolving door of cast members was at its largest. The guest cast was certainly more expensive than SGU's small compliment of unknowns. I have a hard time believing that Lou Diamond Phillips is earning significant pay per episode.

You also ignore that the series was shot in LA, which is far more expensive than shooting in Vancouver, which is used as a location for most series as a cost-cutting measure. There's a reason The X-Files didn't move to LA until David Duchovny threatened to walk, and a reason the lowly-budgeted second film limped back to shoot in Vancouver. Canada's cheaper, either due to the exchange rate, or, at times the dollar is weaker, generous government tax credits. And on top of that, The West Wing had complicated and expensive location shoots in Washington, DC that further increased costs. In only one episode out of five SGU has shown us expensive location shooting.

The Stargate series started shooting in HD back in SG1's eighth season and show was still too expensive which was one of the reasons why it was cancelled. The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne was the first show shot entirely in HD in 1999 and it turned out to be one of the most expensive shows produced that year and in Canada at that.

The West Wing cost twice as much as Stargate Universe when it first started, long before cast demanded more money.

And you are missing the point, just because a series is a science fiction doesn't mean it should and does cost more money than non sci-fi shows, both Stargate movies cost the same amount of money and yet the first one was shot on film.

http://www.gateworld.net/interviews/breaking_the_ice_part_23.shtml

GW: Are the crew and the writers not anxious to go back to 40 hours a year and do two shows simultaneously?

BW: I'm not anxious to do that. It was almost out of necessity that we did it last time. The money we had to do Atlantis was barely enough to do it right and the dollar had just skyrocketed. When we said we could do it, it was based on a dollar that was very different.

I hate to get practical here, but every tenth of a dollar, every point, depending on the budget on a movie it's enormous. On a television show you're looking at 60 to 80 thousand dollars. That just comes off the screen. And we like things on the screen. We like to make the biggest show we can and I hate, hate, hate being so -- and I know fans don't like hearing about the nuts and bolts of production to a certain extent -- but when I see big expensive network shows with literally two and three times our budget and I think "Man, what could we do with that?" I know what we did -- we made Continuum for the budget of a regular episode of ...

GW: LOST.

BW: Exactly.

 

[Harvey]

And you are missing the point, just because a series is a science fiction doesn't mean it should and does cost more money than non sci-fi shows, both Stargate movies cost the same amount of money and yet the first one was shot on film.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that a science fiction series had to be more expensive than a non-science fiction series. And the cost of film is not the only factor in budgeting, it's just a factor. You're argument that, "look, X was shot on HD and it was expensive!" is just asinine.

As per the Lost quote, it stands to reason that a long-running Network television series that shoots entirely on location in Hawaii with a large ensemble cast, several of which who are known actors, would cost quite a bit more than basic cable fare like Stargate Universe.

I'm done here.

 

[Jono]

Gave it a 7.

Cool moments when it went into the star. The Chloe/Scott thing was something I thought would happen but maybe a bit later. I did not buy Chloe's self sacrifice bit after boning Scott. If they tinged it with a more suicidal edge I would have bought it given what has happened. Here's hoping Eli and Lt. James get it on next.

As for the end I don't think Rush knew, he might have suspected but that's about it.

 

[DWF]

And you are missing the point, just because a series is a science fiction doesn't mean it should and does cost more money than non sci-fi shows, both Stargate movies cost the same amount of money and yet the first one was shot on film.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that a science fiction series had to be more expensive than a non-science fiction series. And the cost of film is not the only factor in budgeting, it's just a factor. You're argument that, "look, X was shot on HD and it was expensive!" is just asinine.

As per the Lost quote, it stands to reason that a long-running Network television series that shoots entirely on location in Hawaii with a large ensemble cast, several of which who are known actors, would cost quite a bit more than basic cable fare like Stargate Universe.

I'm done here.

I said nothing about HD costing more money and my response was to AnthonyF's post, the truth of the matter and my point was that a series isn't going to cost more just because it's a science fiction series, there's plenty of non sci-fi shows that cost alot more.

There's alot of factors that go into where the money's spent and the American has gotten weaker in Canada so filming there isn't as cost cutting as it used to be.

And Carlton Cuse talked about the differences in filming The Adventures Of Brisco County and Lost on the Brisco County DVDs, Lost takes some nine days to shoot where Brisco County took only six, those factors should be taken in account as well. And the large casts of The West Wing or Lost aren't always on screen in every ep. and you can see that on Stargate Univese as well, they have a large cast too but not everybody are regulars.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I'm really diggin' this show. To me, it gets better by the episode. Rush is my favorite followed by Yound and Tamara Johansson (is anyone else amused that she sort of looks like Scarlett Johansson?).

Funny, I thought she looked like Ashley Judd. Gave this one an 8. Looking forward to tonight!

 

[Hyperspace05]

Re: Show budget.... The Air Pt.III location shoot was probably the most expensive location shoot the Stargate franchise has done in MANY MANY years. Then of course there is the cost of building the major sets, which only counts against the 1st season costs.

 

[FPAlpha]

I'm really diggin' this show. To me, it gets better by the episode. Rush is my favorite followed by Yound and Tamara Johansson (is anyone else amused that she sort of looks like Scarlett Johansson?).

Funny, I thought she looked like Ashley Judd. Gave this one an 8. Looking forward to tonight!

I think she has a far closer likeness to Katherine Heigl from Greys Anatomy.. exactly the same type.

 

[USS Kongo]

Finally saw this on Hulu. I enjoyed it, overall. No travelling to earth with the damn magical stones, for once. I really like how they've mad eouter space dangerous and wonderous once again.

Sean