True but by the time Voyager hit the air, a major part of the audience that tuned into TNG had moved on or were becoming Trekked out. Any series with so many spin offs was bound to get watered down and not be as strong as the ones before it. That's just how things work.
Seven of Nine saved the show
- Thread starter John200
- Start date
Considering DS9 was on up against Voy. in many major cities, it would stand to reason those interested in DS9's war arc would naturally tune in to DS9 over Voy. thus the decline in Voy.'s ratings around those same seasons.
It's why many for years are going back to re-discover Voyager now.
I think that was more to do with the writing than the cast, who were all competent. I watched the episode where Chakotay and Kim find Voyager in a glacier and send a message back in time blah blah blah. I was interested to see that 15 years of wisdom had turned Kim into a petulant child.
What about inflation?
Are lower ratings worth "more" in the future ('93 vs. '99?)?
Of course that's inflation of the dollar + inflation of the demographic value.
7 years is a long time that those effects can be noted.
Seven didn't 'save' the show, but she didn't ruin it either IMO...Kes could have been handled better but I think getting rid of the character was a mistake. The show would have been better with both.
It couldn't afford both.
The greater shame is that they got rid of their reocuirring gueststar budget a year earlier to pay for more explosions and other cgi.
The greater shame is that they got rid of their reocuirring gueststar budget a year earlier to pay for more explosions and other cgi.
Withers
Captain
This brings up a question that's been drifting in my head since I started posting in the Voyager forum;
Was the shows operating budget significantly less that Deep Space Nine's? It seems like it had to have been and that would go along way toward explaining some of the deficencies. DS9 had almost two dozen recurring characters that were, for the most part, always played by the same actors. In addition to that they had the biggest CGI moments ever seen in the Trek universe with the exception being, maybe, First Contact. Voyager, on the other hand, seemingly got Kes and Neelix and enough pocket change to do well on the pilot... and then nothing else for a while.
-Withers-
Was the shows operating budget significantly less that Deep Space Nine's? It seems like it had to have been and that would go along way toward explaining some of the deficencies. DS9 had almost two dozen recurring characters that were, for the most part, always played by the same actors. In addition to that they had the biggest CGI moments ever seen in the Trek universe with the exception being, maybe, First Contact. Voyager, on the other hand, seemingly got Kes and Neelix and enough pocket change to do well on the pilot... and then nothing else for a while.
-Withers-
Not that i know the numbers, but Voyager's Budget was set up 5 years after Ds9's was, when they assumed that DS9 would be as equally profitable as TNG, which of course it wasn't... So Voyager must have been given a radically reduced Budget than DS9 because it was expected to be as large a faliure as DS9.
Yes, DS9 was a financial clusterfuck.
Someone here once said here that Wang as a minor character got a little over twenty grand an episode, even if he was only seen in the background and doesn't have any lines... Of course his contract states that he must be in X number of episodes if not every episode.
Yes, DS9 was a financial clusterfuck.
Someone here once said here that Wang as a minor character got a little over twenty grand an episode, even if he was only seen in the background and doesn't have any lines... Of course his contract states that he must be in X number of episodes if not every episode.
J
Jetfire
Guest
I had no problems with the character or Jeri Ryan...I know I enjoyed the show more when she was on. 
J
Jetfire
Guest
With VOY up against shows like The WB's The Waynes Brothers/Jamie Foxx Show, Charmed, Roswell & Felicity...you would think it would have done better.
Being on UPN it couldn't have a real network as competition.
Being on UPN it couldn't have a real network as competition.
I find this hard to believe because I remember Wolfe commenting around the time that the DS9 DVDs first came out that they were selling like hotcakes. And back then they cost $130 USD per season (just looked it up to be sure) and IIRC I used to see them for $200 CAD per season, both prices which are of course, insanely ludicrous. And they stayed at the price point for several years (they wouldn't have if no one bought them).
It seems to be highly unlikely that Paramount and those connected to the DS9 IP didn't make unfathomable profits from it.
I don't think Seven "saved" Voyager, but she reintroduced that element of friction that many felt was resolved "too quickly" in the Starfleet/Maquis story line. Except here, she butted heads not just with Starfleet (Janeway), she also butted heads with Chak and B'Elanna (Maquis).
As for who my fav's are on Voyager... that's easy. Janeway, B'Elanna, and Seven of Nine. Talk about a "nuclear" family. ;-)
As for who my fav's are on Voyager... that's easy. Janeway, B'Elanna, and Seven of Nine. Talk about a "nuclear" family. ;-)
TOS
Budget
$100,000 (per episode) (estimated)
TNG
Budget
$1,500,000 (per episode) (estimated)
$2,500,000 (per episode) (season 3-7) (estimated)
Deep Space Nine
Budget
$2,000,000 (per episode) (estimated)
$4,000,000 (per episode) (Season 4-7) (estimated)
Voyager
Budget
$2,200,000 (Per Episode) (estimated)
$3,500,000 (per episode) (Season 4-7) (estimated)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106145/business
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112178/business
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060028/business
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092455/business
All links cite mojoboxoffice as their original source.
Remember the bleed over with when tng, ds9 and Voy were made simultaneously. So really they were using less money per episode to make the last five seaosns of Voyager than they were to make both a cheaper Voy and DS9 together.
Moving along.
Navros, of course the DVD's sold well. It's compelling and well made TV. However as a weekly digest, it's pretty hard for Americans to follow with out Nudity or car chases as an incentive. Besides how the money is split up, I don't think that the ad revenue TV money from reruns and the DVD sales money goes to mostly the same people.
Budget
$100,000 (per episode) (estimated)
TNG
Budget
$1,500,000 (per episode) (estimated)
$2,500,000 (per episode) (season 3-7) (estimated)
Deep Space Nine
Budget
$2,000,000 (per episode) (estimated)
$4,000,000 (per episode) (Season 4-7) (estimated)
Voyager
Budget
$2,200,000 (Per Episode) (estimated)
$3,500,000 (per episode) (Season 4-7) (estimated)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106145/business
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112178/business
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060028/business
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092455/business
All links cite mojoboxoffice as their original source.
Remember the bleed over with when tng, ds9 and Voy were made simultaneously. So really they were using less money per episode to make the last five seaosns of Voyager than they were to make both a cheaper Voy and DS9 together.
Moving along.
Navros, of course the DVD's sold well. It's compelling and well made TV. However as a weekly digest, it's pretty hard for Americans to follow with out Nudity or car chases as an incentive. Besides how the money is split up, I don't think that the ad revenue TV money from reruns and the DVD sales money goes to mostly the same people.
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No it wasn't. DS9 began production in 1992, Voyager in 1994... that's two years.
I'm not disputing your points, just your math
.....but you have to establish a shows budget before you can begin production. Before one actor gets cast, before one word hits paper for a script, before one set gets built. All that has to be determined by a budget of cost first.
No it wasn't. DS9 began production in 1992, Voyager in 1994... that's two years.
I'm not disputing your points, just your math
BTW, a shows budget is also determined by viewership ratings due to commercial sponsorship and sweeps weeks. The more of an audience a show pulls, the more higher end advertisers want to fight for commerical adds during that show. The more higher add advertisers, the more money is generated toward the network to put back into that show.
We also have to take into account that DS9 was on a syndicated network that didn't require network ratings for a show to stay in production. DS9 was making it's money from the previous budget the TNG brought in. Voyager was the first Trek series sinse TOS that was budgeted by rating based network TV. So Voyager had to keep a large audience if it was going to afford to keep Jen Lien and Jeri Ryan on the payroll. The Trek fan base isn't as big as TNG numbers lead Paramount to believe, which it why Voyager's numbers were so low. More of those that did watch Voyager were core Trekker's or brand new fans of the franchiese. The casual audience of TNG didn't follow because they were burnt out on Trek.
No it wasn't. DS9 began production in 1992, Voyager in 1994... that's two years.
I'm not disputing your points, just your math
That's not a math problem.
I obviously had an aneurysm.
Exodus?
TV isn't given new money on the fly just because it's profitable for the suits. They don't want to give away their profits to the "talent". Greedy sons of bitches don't share.
Agents go to war.
Kicking, screaming and burning each others homes down to ring just a few more cents out of their clients employers.
The reason these shows last for 7 years (suck it Enterprise!) is that the actors had 7 year contracts, and that it's easier to start a new show than to give a proven cast on a good show what they're actually worth. or worse yet, what they think they're worth. Actors. God help us all.
ReadyAndWilling
Fleet Captain
I don't know how people can talk about Kes like she was some epic character. She was trash.
Anyway, Ryan could dance rings around Lien in acting ability.
Ryan was like a more evolved version of Lien in a lot of ways. Much more attractive, intelligent and 10x the actress.
Anyway, Ryan could dance rings around Lien in acting ability.
Ryan was like a more evolved version of Lien in a lot of ways. Much more attractive, intelligent and 10x the actress.
Jeri is talented, but Seven is boring. She's half the tragedy that Hugh or One was and then Jeri has to the best she can to be a block of wood like Spiner, but sticking her boobs out.
Jennifer might not be AS talented as Jeri, but kes is a hell of a alot more interesting than another bloody borg. She's a boondocks yokel screwing a hedgehog, turning into a god.
Jennifer might not be AS talented as Jeri, but kes is a hell of a alot more interesting than another bloody borg. She's a boondocks yokel screwing a hedgehog, turning into a god.
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