Not a fan theory, it actually does originate from Terrance Dicks and has been featured in novels and other tie-in material.
Series 12 News & Spoilers
- Thread starter Lonemagpie
- Start date
Oh, got it! Thanks!
Hmmm. I thought it originated with fans. I don't know if Terry got it from fans or the other way around now. But, either way, it's a non-canon theory. The closest it got to being onscreen was The Two Doctors--but never explicitly said.
Did some research. 6B seems to have originated with the comics by Polystyle Publications. In the gap between Troughton and Pertwee, they published stories where Troughton was exiled on Earth (post War Games) awaiting his enforced regeneration (pre Spearhead).
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Terrance Dicks started it himself as a means of adding longevity to the Second Doctor comic strip, having run out of ideas but needing it to continue until Pertwee's premiere aired. He decided, "what if we do adventures after the Doctor's trial in The War Games?"
I don't think Terrance Dicks wrote for Polystyle Publications?
Looks like the theory really crystalized thanks to The Discontinuity Guide (1995) by Paul Cornell, Martin Day, and Kieth Topping. Discussed this issue in depth. Parts of the Guide, including 6B, were taken by the BBC as being true. So, heck, guess it's sort of official. Didn't realize that.
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I don't know, it's the story I always heard.
Terrance Dicks might have bought into and even promoted the theory. But, it doesn't look like he originated it.
Season 6B
Absolutely no chance - none.
Ruth from Season 6b - no.
I've seen a lot of people theorising this, but it neither fits the rumour from October, which has so far proved true, or the regeneration cycle numbers.
But we know the original rumour - dating back to October - was that Ruth is a pre-Hartnell Doctor, the first of an original all-female cycle wiped from the Doctor's memory, which would be revealed when the Doctor is set on track by Sacha Dirwan as the Master. So far all the elements of it revealed to date have been proved correct, and I see no reason to assume the rest of it won't. Reportedly this will end up with Thirteen having her memory wiped and going onwards believes herself to be the first and only - so far - incarnation... Though that part doesn't date to October and is probably speculation based on the aired episode. OTOH the one part, now that I think of it, which hasn't proved true is that Ruth would be introduced in Spyfall, and I don't remember that happening.
The problem with the season 6b theory is it would require the regeneration cycle to have run out either with Nine or to have continued on until Thirteen goes, with no need for a new cycle given between Eleven and Twelve... Depending on whether you're trying to squeeze a whole regen cycle in there.
I've seen a lot of people theorising this, but it neither fits the rumour from October, which has so far proved true, or the regeneration cycle numbers.
But we know the original rumour - dating back to October - was that Ruth is a pre-Hartnell Doctor, the first of an original all-female cycle wiped from the Doctor's memory, which would be revealed when the Doctor is set on track by Sacha Dirwan as the Master. So far all the elements of it revealed to date have been proved correct, and I see no reason to assume the rest of it won't. Reportedly this will end up with Thirteen having her memory wiped and going onwards believes herself to be the first and only - so far - incarnation... Though that part doesn't date to October and is probably speculation based on the aired episode. OTOH the one part, now that I think of it, which hasn't proved true is that Ruth would be introduced in Spyfall, and I don't remember that happening.
The problem with the season 6b theory is it would require the regeneration cycle to have run out either with Nine or to have continued on until Thirteen goes, with no need for a new cycle given between Eleven and Twelve... Depending on whether you're trying to squeeze a whole regen cycle in there.
Yeah, it being 6B doesn't really fit in my mind.
I hope the part of the rumor where Whitaker's Doctor has her memory wiped isn't true. What would be the point of the story? Stories should affect characters and memory wiping removes that... sure it's tragic at that moment, but after the wipe, clean slate... beh.
I would rather she knows.
I'm holding out hope she's not Pre-Hartnell and that there is not an entire cycle Pre-Hartnell. However, I could live with that if it's done well. I still think it cheapens what we saw. We saw the Doctor learning how to become the Doctor. Learning how to better navigate his TARDIS etc.
But, dang, if she has her memory erased and thinks she's the first, what is the freaking point. Agree with your sentiment. It would be hard for me to swallow *that* development.
Obviously, all things are easier to accept if 'well done.'
I don't mind if Doctor Ruth is a Pre-Hartnell Doctor. Given the memory wipe, the Doctor would have to relearn everything about themselves, including flying the Tardis. One of the first things the 12th Doctor asked was if Clara knew how to fly the Tardis... The 3rd Doctor had that information removed from his mind...
^ Of course, well done is better than not. My point was it's not my preferred approach. It'll have to work out really well for me to think that it was an ok direction. Even then I'd have my doubts about the approach. YMMV.
What you write highlights why I think it cheapens the story. If Hartnell is the first, we're watching him learn how to become who he becomes. If he had a mind wipe and he is the 14th incarnation, we're just watching him overcome amnesia. I'd prefer the former over the latter. Again, YMMV.
What you write highlights why I think it cheapens the story. If Hartnell is the first, we're watching him learn how to become who he becomes. If he had a mind wipe and he is the 14th incarnation, we're just watching him overcome amnesia. I'd prefer the former over the latter. Again, YMMV.
If they wipe 13th's memory to make her the only Doctor, I will never watch a new episode of Doctor Who again, at least not until it gets inevitably retconned when Chibnall is off ruining something else. That is the single stupidest rumored thing ever.
I mean, I'd hate for there to be pre-Hartnell Doctors (of any gender/etc, Hartnell is the first Doctor, period), but I'll take that over erasing The Doctor's history so that Chibnall's shit can be the "only" Doctor. I'd prefer for this new Doctor to be a "hidden" Doctor, a parallel universe Doctor or a fake, but I'll take pre-1st if the other option is that we're going to have Chibnall literally delete the franchise in favor of his OC Doctor.
I mean, I'd hate for there to be pre-Hartnell Doctors (of any gender/etc, Hartnell is the first Doctor, period), but I'll take that over erasing The Doctor's history so that Chibnall's shit can be the "only" Doctor. I'd prefer for this new Doctor to be a "hidden" Doctor, a parallel universe Doctor or a fake, but I'll take pre-1st if the other option is that we're going to have Chibnall literally delete the franchise in favor of his OC Doctor.
Then what happens the first time the cybermen or daleks comment about the doctor's appearance having changed again?
I'm not married to the 6B idea, but it's one possible way to go. Whatever they do go with, I hope they don't wipe the Doc's memory again, unless they plan to undo it relatively quickly (even next season).
Ruth can be pre-Hartnell or fit in any other place, as long as the storytelling is good and there's a good reason for the first mindwipe. Obviously the Timelords are showing their bad side once again, so I wouldn't put anything past them.
Ruth can be pre-Hartnell or fit in any other place, as long as the storytelling is good and there's a good reason for the first mindwipe. Obviously the Timelords are showing their bad side once again, so I wouldn't put anything past them.
There's nothing in the rumor pile that I like. The Doctor was a woman for thirteen regenerations straight BEFORE Hartnell?
Bullshit!
Bullshit!
Oh, that's easy. We just say "The Stolen Earth" regeneration didn't count, after all. The Doctor clearly didn't think it did until he actually tried to regenerate at some point in "Time of the Doctor" and realized he was already out of gas (in "The Next Doctor," Ten says he has at least two regenerations left, and there are, like, three times the Eleventh Doctor clearly believed he had another regeneration, and in "Let's Kill Hitler," he was alone, so there's no reason he'd be bluffing or lying). Squeezing in one more extra Doctor is easy. Squeezing in a dozen or so, complete with a Police Box TARDIS, alias of the Doctor, while having already seen the Doctor as a boy-child... even discounting everything we heard second-hand about the Doctor's childhood and life before leaving Gallifrey and only considering what we've seen explicitly, the pre-Hartnell all-woman regeneration cycle, while easier to say in one sentence and a bigger (and more unprecedented) "event," requires a lot more nuts-and-bolts headcanon and handwaves than having Ruth be the secret second-and-a-half Doctor.
I mean, even the question of the First Doctor's actual number brings up a bunch of headachey, confusing issues around the problem of n regenerations equalling n+1 faces, which I genuinely hoped we wouldn't have to deal with after the Moffat-era said (twice!) there was no reason to think the Doctor had only gotten twelve extra regenerations. Now, it looks like, assuming no halvsies like "The Stolen Earth," Hartnell would've had to have been the original thirteenth Doctor and gotten his next package of regenerations in advance. Or, he could be the fourteenth if, again "The Stolen Earth" really didn't count, and the Doctor was just lucky to have an ambiguous regeneration to explain why they ran out early.
I also really don't like the amnesia thing for the Thirteenth Doctor thematically, but I'll keep my powder dry in case it actually happens. The "total continuity reboot"/"incumbent becomes the 'new' first Doctor" theory/rumor has been floating around since 2005, and it's never been the case, no matter how many times the Doctor has tapped into the Time Vortex, rebooted the universe, or grabbed a polarity-reversed memory-wiping gizmo.
And in Lets Kill Hitler! the Tardis clearly says "Regeneration is not possible." Or maybe the doctor miscounted and thought he had another regeneration in him, only realising later that he didn't? Or maybe he thought "You know what this isn't going to work but what's the harm in trying?" Even Taking the Impossible Astronaut into account and the Teleselecta, the fake Doctor appeared to regenerate because that's what River et al would have expected to see.
All these theories rely on ignoring the really simple mystery that is set up in the episode:
1) The dilemma set up is easy for a casual viewer to follow (see 2 and 3)
2) This is a real Doctor
2) Why does the 13th Doctor not remember this real doctor?
So most of the complex theories fall to pieces at 2 and a few fall to pieces because of 1 (Season 6b).
1) The dilemma set up is easy for a casual viewer to follow (see 2 and 3)
2) This is a real Doctor
2) Why does the 13th Doctor not remember this real doctor?
So most of the complex theories fall to pieces at 2 and a few fall to pieces because of 1 (Season 6b).
