Serialized storytelling versus episodic

[Charles Phipps]

I have to say the biggest thing which renders it difficult to judge Discovery against other Star Trek series is it's so far very much of the Game of Thrones mold in that one piece leads to the next with no sense, yet, about how it all fits together.

You could say, for instance, this is a darker interpretation of Trek but it might all be leading to the discovery (ha) that this is NOT the way Starfleet is supposed to be and that it's all leading to Michael putting a stop to Lorca's nefarious planTM. Which-admittedly, just makes it Into Darkness and Deep Space Nine.

Or maybe Lorca will turn out to be a decent fellow (ha!) pushed to the brink.

The Klingon stuff may be ridiculous filler or it might all be pushing toward a "villain's journey" where Voq finds himself developing into the Klingon messiah he was always meant to be--or figuring out the Klingon Old Ways are actually bunk.

We can't say yet.

It's less like a new Star Trek series than a 10 hour movie.

What do you think?

 

[BillJ]

Either way, after four episodes I'm bored. Though I do prefer episodic structure where Star Trek is concerned. So I'm sure my biases are creeping in to a degree.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think the problem with Disco is none of the episodes stand on their own.

There is a difference between "broadcast" serialization (or one episode a week) and "Netflix" serialization (whole chunks released at ones). Shows like Thrones and BreakingABQ still try to keep the episodes as self-contained as possible, with only a few lingering threads each week.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Either way, after four episodes I'm bored. Though I do prefer episodic structure where Star Trek is concerned. So I'm sure my biases are creeping in to a degree.

I'm willing to follow where the story is going but I feel like there's plenty of legitimate criticisms to begin with. Michael Burnham isn't likable enough to be the central character versus, say, Ned Stark.

Michelle Yeoh and Jason Isaacs having more charisma doens't help as they overshadow her.

Weirdly, I think Tilly might have been a better POV if they have to one.

 

[Tesophius]

My problem with serialized story telling is that there's no satisfaction after watching an episode. At best (or worst?) you're left frustrated with a cliff hanger. It's more of an addiction than enjoyment. It can also be a bit of both, I've watched all of Breaking Bad and GOT, but it's definitely not want I wanted from StarTrek.

I hope that the future episodes are going to have more of self contained stories and ideas, despite the backdrop of this "exciting" war.

The boring, unrealistic and unrelatable characters are an icing on the cake. You'd think that in this format we'd at least get fascinating characters to care about, yet I find even Yaphit to be more relatable than anyone on the Discovery

 

[Noname Given]

I think the problem with Disco is none of the episodes stand on their own.

There is a difference between "broadcast" serialization (or one episode a week) and "Netflix" serialization (whole chunks released at ones). Shows like Thrones and BreakingABQ still try to keep the episodes as self-contained as possible, with only a few lingering threads each week.

IDK:
The first two seem to stand fine on their own as a self contained film. In the end, Burnham was convicted and sentenced.
The last two also stand fine as the point was to successfully understand what happened to the Glen and in the second rescue Corvan II from Klingon attack<-- and again, that happened.

 

[Brainsucker]

I prefer serialized storytelling than episodic one. Because serialized story telling make me want to watch the next episode, while the episodic one make me feel enough after I watch for about 5 - 8 episodes in total. It happen to me with Gotham, The Orville, and many other TV Shows that I watched recently. I managed to survived Star Trek TNG, MacGyver, and some other old TV Shows just because I watched it long time ago when I was young.

But in contrary, I can enjoy a very long serialized TV Shows until the end, because they always spark my interest to watch the next episode. That's why I prefer to watch East Asian TV dramas than the Western TV Shows. I can watch a 55 episodes long of Chinese Wuxia serialized shows, or 16 episodes of long Korean and Japanese dramas. But I become quickly bored just after I watch 4 episodes of The Orville. Hell, I can't even manage to pass the 8th episodes of The Gotham, although I like that show very much.

 

[O_Kav]

I think the serialized format is a good thing. DS9 probably was the most serialized Trek we had before DSC and that's one of the many reasons why I like it so much.

 

[Vger23]

I like serialized these days. It basically replaces the fact that there are no good, thoughtful, intricate, adult movies made any longer. Well now you get a big, long movie-quality show (Thrones, TWD, Discovery, whatever).

Where serialized tends to fail me is in re-watch value. I love watching the story unfold (and reserve judgement until the pieces start to fall into place)...but I can hardly ever bring myself to re-watch because I don't have the time and energy to reengage with what is essentially a 15 hour movie...and the stories don't stand on their own very well.

I love DS9, for example...but I've only watched it all the way through once.

 

[eschaton]

IMHO the structural problem with the show is around the use of Burnham as the core protagonist, instead of making it a triad (like TOS) or an ensemble show (like every Trek since). Both the changes put together mean structurally it's very different from any Trek before. And they're not doing a good job either making Burham a convincing protagonist (her actions seem to serve the plot, rather than the other way around) or fleshing out any of the secondary characters.

I think serialization is just fine however. My own preference however would be the show would slow down and only have maybe half as many plot threads per episode, to allow for more extensive character interaction.

 

[The Wormhole]

IMHO the structural problem with the show is around the use of Burnham as the core protagonist, instead of making it a triad (like TOS) or an ensemble show (like every Trek since). Both the changes put together mean structurally it's very different from any Trek before.

The idea was to get away from the Trek format of the main cast being the Captain and senior officers, a move I actually approve. Ironically, in the series where the captain isn't the lead, Lorca ends up being the most interesting character anyway.

 

[eschaton]

The idea was to get away from the Trek format of the main cast being the Captain and senior officers, a move I actually approve. Ironically, in the series where the captain isn't the lead, Lorca ends up being the most interesting character anyway.

I think we already got away from this though. TNG only had Wesley (which ended), but DS9 had Jake, Odo, Quark, and Kira - not to mention non-Starfleet "fake guest stars" like Garrick, Gul Dukat, Damar, Rom, Martok, etc. Voyager had this to a lesser extent, because Kes, Neelix, and later Seven were not Starfleet officers.

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

The idea was to get away from the Trek format of the main cast being the Captain and senior officers, a move I actually approve. Ironically, in the series where the captain isn't the lead, Lorca ends up being the most interesting character anyway.

That's because Burnham unfortunately has the charisma of a wet fart. I haven't seen the actress in other things, but as written and portrayed Burnham not main character material. The real main character should be Tilly. What a journey that would be.

 

[The Wormhole]

but DS9 had Jake, Odo, Quark, and Kira

How are Kira and Odo not senior officers? Kira was the station's XO, and Odo the chief of security.

 

[alex08060]

DS 9 is serialized storytelling as well, it goes to worm hole travel, introducing the dominion, cold war phase and then finally war in 7 seasons.

 

[eschaton]

How are Kira and Odo not senior officers? Kira was the station's XO, and Odo the chief of security.

They weren't Starfleet at least, though I do see your point.

 

[Tesophius]

I prefer serialized storytelling than episodic one. Because serialized story telling make me want to watch the next episode, while the episodic one make me feel enough after I watch for about 5 - 8 episodes in total. It happen to me with Gotham, The Orville, and many other TV Shows that I watched recently. I managed to survived Star Trek TNG, MacGyver, and some other old TV Shows just because I watched it long time ago when I was young.

But in contrary, I can enjoy a very long serialized TV Shows until the end, because they always spark my interest to watch the next episode. That's why I prefer to watch East Asian TV dramas than the Western TV Shows. I can watch a 55 episodes long of Chinese Wuxia serialized shows, or 16 episodes of long Korean and Japanese dramas. But I become quickly bored just after I watch 4 episodes of The Orville. Hell, I can't even manage to pass the 8th episodes of The Gotham, although I like that show very much.

That's because they hook you with cliff hangers, it's a form of psychological addiction.

 

[Charles Phipps]

That's because Burnham unfortunately has the charisma of a wet fart. I haven't seen the actress in other things, but as written and portrayed Burnham not main character material. The real main character should be Tilly. What a journey that would be.

Yeah, I think the main issue is that we're kind of in an odd place for her journey to begin. If we'd started with her as a criminal then we'd have a different impression but we're all over the place with her character. Frightened child, Vulcan human, loving 1st officer, hated traitor.

She's just....too much right now.

 

[eschaton]

That's because they hook you with cliff hangers, it's a form of psychological addiction.

The show hasn't had one decent cliffhanger yet.

 

[fireproof78]

Personally, this is why I reserve judgement for DSC until the season is concluded. It is doing storytelling in a way that hasn't been done, full on, in Star Trek before. I would rather see the story play out, than get up before Act 1 is done.

I felt that way during Daredevil at first, and you know what? I got over it. I'm willing to let my desire to be satisfied with the story's end go, and be prepared to see each part as part of a greater whole. That becomes more interesting world building, because there is more details to enjoy.