Sequel/Transformers 2: we're in trouble

[Qonos]

Every time someone writes a racist sterotype they use the lame excuse they 'are making fun of (some white guy)' not blacks.

In other words if some white guy acts that way he's a lame jerk and it's okay to mock him. But then who is the 'lame white guy mimicing? He's obviously mimicing blacks. So in reality it is just a back-door way of mocking black hip-hop culture.

The guys doing the voices of the 'hip-hop' robots were BLACK so they were clearly NOT mocking Federline. They clearly didn't hire two black guys to mock Federline. It was said they ad-libbed a lot of the dialogue. THEY thought it was funny.

The bigger problem is our people in our socitety not having the guts to say they despise black hip-hop culture (I do)
They think it's ignorant and uncilivized but they can only mock it when moronic whites do the same thing.

Oh and the two franchises are totally different and the writers know that. The Trek sequel won't be anything like Transformers.

I found Jazz to be a much more offensive stereotype than the twins in the first movie.

Or the actual BLACK People (save Tyrese) that they had in the first moive.

even a smart black man will be livin at home with his mama, and sell you out for a nickle because he doesn`t want no trouble from the cops

Maybe if you guys actually got your facts from say the source.

Like Shoot for the Edit. com
Don Murphy net.

Instead of listening to a sellout like Harry Knowles of AICN you would know what is really going on with the movie.

Just sayin.

BTW the Rotten tomatoes score for TF1 was bad and slowly went up but end around 51 percent fresh. Half the time the people who post there do not know what they are talking about and movies like Star Trek are the fluke not the norm.

Also there is usually a lot of truth in stereotypes. That is why it is called a Stereotype

4. Sociology. a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I still maintain that those characters could have been rednecks trying to act like what they think black people act like.

 

[MvRojo]

I still maintain that those characters could have been rednecks trying to act like what they think black people act like.

That would make sense if they didn't have gold teeth.

 

[SalvorHardin]

I still maintain that those characters could have been rednecks trying to act like what they think black people act like.

That would make sense if they didn't have gold teeth.

Maybe it wasn't gold but actually redneck, bad mouth hygiene yellow

 

[M'Sharak]

www.donmurphy.net.

Go ask Roberto yourself. He hangs there.

<snip>

Maybe if you guys actually got your facts from say the source.

Like Shoot for the Edit. com
Don Murphy net.

Instead of listening to a sellout like Harry Knowles of AICN you would know what is really going on with the movie.

Just sayin.
<snip>

If you know of specific threads at either of those places in which Orci has addressed that topic and can provide links to them, I think it could save a lot of time. It's certainly more direct than stating that "X is so -- get your facts right", and then saying "go ask him yourself" when someone asks what those facts are.

The Twins are a play on Kevin Ferderline and the like not on black people. Get your facts right.

Where are the facts supporting that statement?

I thought MvRojo's question here was a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.

 

[Jeyl]

Instead of taking the time to give characters depth, they focus on only what their comical anecdotes can bring to the story. However, it's neither interesting nor does it contribute anything. It's like they wanted these characters to stand out SO MUCH that they had to make them so stupid, vulgar and idiotic. If that's the writer's way of differentiating the Transformer Characters from each other, that's bad story telling.

Transformers 2 is a bad movie and if there is anyone I would put the blame for this film's existence, I wouldn't put it on Bay, the writers or the heads of Paramount. I would blame you, the audience who chose not only to see a bad movie and like it, but send out the message that you don't care about this thing called potential. What makes movie audiences today so annoying is that whenever someone says this film could have been a lot better, they always go for the argument that "It's not trying to be Shakespeare or Citizen Kane" when that's not even the whole point of the discussion. Transformers should be about freaking Transformers. Why is that so hard?

If audiences gave more movies like this passes, Batman would still be using the same formula as Batman & Robin.

 

[trampledamage]

Oh come on. Yes there's a thing called potential - but there's also a thing called "making a movie for a particular age group". Transformers is a movie for teenage boys. And it can't really be a surprise to anyone that teenage boys like gross humour and find characters created to be stereotypes funny.

I don't like movies like that, but I'm not going to criticise anyone else for watching them, or anyone for making them. I'm not their audience. I think the American Pie movies are stupid too. I wouldn't watch them, but I'm not at all surprised that they are successful.

Same with Transformers.

 

[Jeyl]

I think the American Pie movies are stupid too. I wouldn't watch them, but I'm not at all surprised that they are successful.

That'd make sense, except that the American Pie movies started out like that and they practically tell the audience what they're in for. Transformers was never known for having gross humor or stereotypical characters. The American Pie movies are (with the exception of the sterotype thing). In fact, I would go so far as to say that the humor in the first American Pie movie is far more acceptable to the Transformer's target audience than what's in the Transformers movies themselves. Not to mention the humor in American Pie actually fit the story line.

Even the trailers for Transformers didn't showcase any of that vulgar crap. You watch a trailer to an American Pie movie, it tells you it's there.

 

[Qonos]

What time...

You go to the site, you go into the forum, you go to the movie forum BAM Stickied topic called Ask Robert Orci....

Shoot for the edit is Micheal Bay's blog. READ. I got a hundred million things to do if you want the information so much get it. It's your responisbility to be informed before making slanderous and possibly liable statements on what the writers did or did not have in mind with characters.

That'd make sense, except that the American Pie movies started out like that and they practically tell the audience what they're in for. Transformers was never known for having gross humor or stereotypical characters. The American Pie movies are. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the humor in the first couple of American Pie movies are far more acceptable to the Transformer's target audience than what's in the Transformers movies themselves. Not to mention the humor was appropriate for those types of movies.

What? Transformers not into stereotypes. JAZZ was THE BLACK ROBOT even in the 80's cartoon... Tracks was a very veiled "GAY" Transformer. I really think you ought to know what your talking about before you say things like this.

 

[Jeyl]

What? Transformers not into stereotypes. JAZZ was THE BLACK ROBOT even in the 80's cartoon... Tracks was a very veiled "GAY" Transformer. I really think you ought to know what your talking about before you say things like this.

Compared to Jazz in the first live action Transformers movie, I'd say my statement stands.

 

[Qonos]

You can think it all you like it doesn't make it true sweetheart.

The idea of giving each Transformer a personality ended up with a specific stereotype, ethnic or otherwise for each character.

Prowl was the cop, security was his thing and he played things by the book

Ratchet was the medic.

Wheeljack the mad scientist and if he wasn't jewish I don't know where his accent came from.

Ironhide Prime's long time friend and a redneck through and through.

Hound a man a peace with his surrounding, not a hippie, but a conservationist.

Beachcomber... HE was the Hippie

As I said before Tracks was.... Gay.

Mirage well there's our hugging ninja.

You had the dino bots who always had to wear their 'special Helmets"

I think I can stop here. You can go ahead and put your fingers in your ears and say LALALA all you want it doesn't change the fact that the show was full of Stereotypes. Hell Megatron himself was the "Crazy Scheme of the week Badguy." This movie is presenting nothing controversial or new in the franchise and I'm more offended that in this day and age people want to scream racism over a movie while there are people dying over real racism (not percieved racism) Every day.

Think about that. Yelling at Bay, Kurtzman and Orci doesn't fix the problem. Taking a good look at oneself (In a general sense not YOU specifically Jeyl) and seeing where your own predjudices lie (and everyone has them) is a step in the right direction.

 

[M'Sharak]

What time...

You go to the site, you go into the forum, you go to the movie forum BAM Stickied topic called Ask Robert Orci....

So post a link, if you want someone here to read it.

Shoot for the edit is Micheal Bay's blog. READ.

So post a link, if you want someone here to read it.

I got a hundred million things to do if you want the information so much get it. It's your responisbility to be informed before making slanderous and possibly liable statements on what the writers did or did not have in mind with characters.

I honestly don't give a flying fuck (

) about Transformers, one way or the other -- I was way too old by the time they came along, they've never been my bag and have zero intention of watching either of the movies -- but it's customary to provide links to or to quote from the information you're talking about in support of your contention. It's considered good form.

Making a claim or statement and telling someone to "get your facts right", then declining to provide said facts when someone asks what they are and telling them shortly to "go ask him yourself" is not making your case very gracefully; in fact, it's considered bad form. (I will give you credit, though, for at least describing in general terms where to look, this time around.) However, angrily expecting someone to go rummage blindly around an unfamiliar board, as opposed to simply answering a question here directly and amiably, doesn't make it look like you're interested in discussing the subject; it just makes it seem as if you're looking for an argument.

If you think someone has got something wrong, show them what you think is the right answer and give them the opportunity to revise their opinion in the face of new evidence.

I got a hundred million things to do...

I wonder. I really do.

 

[MvRojo]

I'll go ahead and post a link to an interview with Orci and Kurtzman, in which THEY aren't happy with how those characters were portrayed:

I had a chance to speak with Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman about the issue, and they had some surprising things to say. They’ve already claimed in other interviews that the gold tooth and several other elements were Michael Bay’s idea, but when I talked to them, they moved beyond that to claim they were disappointed by the characters.
Cole: I heard that the gold tooth was Michael Bay’s idea, but do you have any response to those who found The Twins offensive?
Orci: Number one, we sympathize. Yes, the gold tooth was not in the script, that’s true.
Kurtzman: It’s really hard for us to sit here and try to justify it.I think that would be very foolish, and if someone wants to be offended by it, it’s their right. We were very surprised when we saw it, too, and it’s a choice that was made. If anything, it just shows you that we don’t control every aspect of the movie.
Cole: Were you offended by them?
Kurtzman:I wasn’t thrilled. I certainly wasn’t thrilled.
Orci: Yeah, same reaction. I’m not easily offended, but when I saw it, I thought, ‘Someone’s gonna write about that.’”

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/ne...ond-to-claims-of-racism-in-transformers-2.php

 

[Borgminister]

MvRojo... Fact Man...

Too bad you're no good with charts...

 

[MvRojo]

MvRojo... Fact Man...

Too bad you're no good with charts...

Ha! I could do charts, but that's already covered.

 

[Borgminister]

MvRojo... Fact Man...

Too bad you're no good with charts...

Ha! I could do charts, but that's already covered.

Squiggs is awol until July 3...

DiagramMan?

 

[Jeri]

We should find that fellow who wanted calculus in the charts and make him do them.

 

[Lumen]

I saw Transformers 2 last night it IMAX. It sucked -- and I mean inexplicable, head-scratching, why-for-the-love-of-god-was-this-film-made sucked.

 

[Borgminister]

I saw Transformers 2 last night it IMAX. It sucked -- and I mean inexplicable, head-scratching, why-for-the-love-of-god-was-this-film-made sucked.

And yet, box office is booming.

I just hope the next Trek film can retain as much of the spot-on characterizations that the first one did; but with Abrams at the helm, I've got a good feeling.

Bay seemed to mess with the script quite a bit--the gold tooth, among other "touches", was his idea.

 

[indranee]

yeah, Orci and Kurtzman seemed a little bit p-od at the gold tooth. interesting. my respect for Bay is falling really fast. and it wasn't that high before.