Seems Voyager should have made a right turn

[Nebusj]

OTOH, she should have equally assumed that the "normal" way home would at SOME point include a run-in with the Borg - and at THAT time the Borg were still one big horrible menace rather than the Queen-led wimps they were post-FC. I would rather think that the wormhole would be too risky a variable to set a course towards.

Was there information in Janeway's possession at the time of ``Caretaker'' to give the Borg any specific location? Note that ``Whatever Episode It Was Introducing The Borg'' over on Next Generation didn't send the Enterprise anywhere near so far away as another quadrant, and ``Descent'' deals with renegade Borg who'd rather not intersect with the Main Borg. And Janeway doesn't seem to discuss the Borg at all in ``Caretaker''.

 

[Deks]

She doesn't, but it was foreshadowed in an episode with the dead Borg drone body (the one where the Borg were referred to as 'invaders' by the aliens who loved to hide ... ah ... 'Fever' episode if I'm not mistaken).

Only in 'Scorpion' did she mention to Chakotay how they all knew that the day when they face the Borg will eventually come.
SF to my recollection discovered the Borg originated in the DQ by the Enterprise-D crew.
Janeway knew this as well by the time of Caretaker.

Also going to the Wormhole would be most likely not a good idea because she was aware of the Dominion, and had no reason to think the Wormhole would even be in the GQ anymore by the time she reached it anyway (which would be in about 70 years time).

 

[nx1701g]

^ In Descent the Enterprise crew learned that the Borg were from the Delta Quadrant.

Another reason why Voyager may not have gone to the Gamma Quadrant: The Wormhole may not have been there when they arrived. It was possible that the wormhole could have collapsed (either naturally or unnaturally).

 

[Nebusj]

^ In Descent the Enterprise crew learned that the Borg were from the Delta Quadrant.

I have not seen the episode in years. However, according to the scripts posted at Trekcore and at another site, no they don't. The only distance of anything mentioned in the scripts is that the planet where the Rogue Borg and Data are is sixty-five light-years from where the Enterprise had been at the start of their transwarp experiment, which was solidly in the Alpha Quadrnt. Nobody says anything about Delta anything, at least in the script.

This may have changed on airing, but I would appreciate a direct quote from dialogue before believing that.

 

[DWF]

^ In Descent the Enterprise crew learned that the Borg were from the Delta Quadrant.

Another reason why Voyager may not have gone to the Gamma Quadrant: The Wormhole may not have been there when they arrived. It was possible that the wormhole could have collapsed (either naturally or unnaturally).

It wasn't a natural wormhole in the first place so there's no reason to think it wouldn't be there when they got there. And I do think it was a viable option and I don't think it wouldn't taken them 70 years to reach it.

 

[Marie1]

It just seems like an awfully long and dangerous route of travel for something that may not have worked...

 

[DonIago]

^ In Descent the Enterprise crew learned that the Borg were from the Delta Quadrant.

Another reason why Voyager may not have gone to the Gamma Quadrant: The Wormhole may not have been there when they arrived. It was possible that the wormhole could have collapsed (either naturally or unnaturally).

It wasn't a natural wormhole in the first place so there's no reason to think it wouldn't be there when they got there. And I do think it was a viable option and I don't think it wouldn't taken them 70 years to reach it.

Not if you ignore the fact that in "Emissary," the Prophets collapsed the wormhole on their own, in "Visionary" the Romulans almost destroyed the wormhole, and in "In Purgatory's Shadow" the Federation planned to collapse the wormhole there isn't, no...

 

[DWF]

^ In Descent the Enterprise crew learned that the Borg were from the Delta Quadrant.

Another reason why Voyager may not have gone to the Gamma Quadrant: The Wormhole may not have been there when they arrived. It was possible that the wormhole could have collapsed (either naturally or unnaturally).

It wasn't a natural wormhole in the first place so there's no reason to think it wouldn't be there when they got there. And I do think it was a viable option and I don't think it wouldn't taken them 70 years to reach it.

Not if you ignore the fact that in "Emissary," the Prophets collapsed the wormhole on their own, in "Visionary" the Romulans almost destroyed the wormhole, and in "In Purgatory's Shadow" the Federation planned to collapse the wormhole there isn't, no...

Then the Founders made sure it couldn't be collapsed.

 

[DonIago]

^Right, until something comes along which can collapse it.

 

[Marie1]

I guess what was meant that they couldn't collapse it using any method they could come up with... their best ideas were exhausted. I was going to say it was a good thing they didn't... but thats not really true...

 

[DWF]

I guess what was meant that they couldn't collapse it using any method they could come up with... their best ideas were exhausted. I was going to say it was a good thing they didn't... but thats not really true...

No, the Founders wanted it to remain open and they knew that Sisko might attempt to close it himself.

 

[nx1701g]

^ In Descent the Enterprise crew learned that the Borg were from the Delta Quadrant.

I have not seen the episode in years. However, according to the scripts posted at Trekcore and at another site, no they don't. The only distance of anything mentioned in the scripts is that the planet where the Rogue Borg and Data are is sixty-five light-years from where the Enterprise had been at the start of their transwarp experiment, which was solidly in the Alpha Quadrnt. Nobody says anything about Delta anything, at least in the script.

This may have changed on airing, but I would appreciate a direct quote from dialogue before believing that.

It appears on the LCARS monitor that LaForge is working on.

 

[Timo]

Indeed. And since the renegade Borg were in the Delta Quadrant, this is actually a good argument for saying that the regular Borg were not! After all, the two would have been blood enemies,and the former would have chosen a hideout far away from the latter...

Neither TNG nor DS9 in any way establish facts about the Borg that would allow Janeway to decide that they lay along a certain course and not along another. Nor does VOY ever indicate that Janeway would have known in advance where and when to expect the Borg.

However, in ST:FC, Beverly Crusher at one point says that the Borg in the 21st century are "still in the Delta Quadrant". We never see an episode or a movie that would establish this fact or supposition, but somehow Crusher seems convinced of it. Perhaps she's just guessing, based on her adventure with the renegades in "Descent", and nobody bothers to contradict her. Or perhaps the Federation did learn something new about the Borg just before ST:FC.

In either case, Janeway probably wouldn't have that same information or supposition in her fingertips. ST:FC takes place around SD 50890, while Janeway left around 48300 and reestablished contact with Starfleet in 51460 or so. The earliest time she would have gotten updates on Alpha Quadrant affairs was when she ran into the Borg... At which point it of course was too late.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marie1]

I guess what was meant that they couldn't collapse it using any method they could come up with... their best ideas were exhausted. I was going to say it was a good thing they didn't... but thats not really true...

No, the Founders wanted it to remain open and they knew that Sisko might attempt to close it himself.

And they were correct. What I meant to say was that it was a good think they didn't given what happened at the end of season 6... then I realized if they had closed the WH when they'd tried, the whole need of what happened at the end of season 6 would have been moot.

 

[nx1701g]

However, in ST:FC, Beverly Crusher at one point says that the Borg in the 21st century are "still in the Delta Quadrant". We never see an episode or a movie that would establish this fact or supposition, but somehow Crusher seems convinced of it. Perhaps she's just guessing, based on her adventure with the renegades in "Descent", and nobody bothers to contradict her. Or perhaps the Federation did learn something new about the Borg just before ST:FC.

We're ignoring two key facts about the Borg.

Jean-Luc Picard most likely knew where Borg space was from his time as Locutus.

Hugh (Third of Five) may have told them where their home territory was.

 

[Nerroth]

Agreed on the Locutus thing - and on the subject of Voyager's departure, it's notable that in one of the early holo-simulations used for pilot training aboard ship, the enemy vessels shown are Jem'Hadar attack ships.

 

[Timo]

Ultimately, "Endgame" negates the idea of Borg home territory as a factor in Janeway's decisionmaking. In that episode, we learn that the Borg are already everywhere, and cannot be circumnavigated no matter what course one takes. If Locutus knew everything about the Borg, and Picard told Starfleet, then Janeway would have known that going through Delta was no more risky than taking some other route.

Still... Perhaps Locutus was indeed told that the original Borg home turf was in Delta. And perhaps that was even true, even though the Borg seem to lie a lot to those they exploit. And if Picard subsequently told Starfleet this, but did not know or tell about the transwarp hubs we might argue that this disinformation did affect Janeway's decisionmaking.

In the end, though, we run into the fact that Janeway did not in any way indicate that she would have known where the Borg reside. Which turned out to be for the best, considering the "Endgame" facts.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marie1]

Agreed on the Locutus thing - and on the subject of Voyager's departure, it's notable that in one of the early holo-simulations used for pilot training aboard ship, the enemy vessels shown are Jem'Hadar attack ships.

Which episodes? Do you know? I haven't seen a lot of Voyager. (I hate coffee... )

 

[DonIago]

I believe the name is "Learning Curve". Last episode of S1 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[ialfan]

Actually it was the second season episode, "Parturition", which has Kes learning how to pilot a shuttle.