Section 31 poll

[1001001]

Were you thinking of Admiral Satie?

"YOU DIRTY HER NAME WHEN YOU SPEAK IT!"

 

[JirinPanthosa]

But how many don't get caught? And we have no idea if Dougherty would've been punished had he lived, and we don't know the ultimate fates of either Kennelly nor Pressman. For all we know, both ended up being cleared for any wrong doing.

There is obvious long running institutional problems within Starfleet. An obvious, long running theme of "the ends justify the means" thinking. Section 31 just seems to be more openly honest in what they are about.

Sure, they're more honestly awful. I'm sure there are moral violations that fall through the cracks, but we don't see admirals tacitly endorsing them the way Ross did S31.

And the fact that moral violations exist doesn't argue that they have anything to do with Federation values.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

How can principles have any meaning if they are not absolute? Think about it.

That's a complex question. You can say principles are absolute, but the moment you try to materialize those principals into words and laws, they lose their absoluteness.

 

[Nerys Myk]

To quote Sisko: "It's easy to be a saint in Paradise."

The Final Frontier is no paradise.

But it did have Paradise City.

 

[1001001]

I hear the grass is green and the girls are pretty there...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That's a complex question. You can say principles are absolute, but the moment you try to materialize those principals into words and laws, they lose their absoluteness.

But you can still try.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I hear the grass is green and the girls are pretty there...

Somebody please take him home.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

I hear the grass is green and the girls are pretty there...

No, this is Star Trek, where the girls are green, and the grass is pretty.

 

[1001001]

Nice!

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Section 31 was the one big mistake that DS9 made, especially with the number of times they incorporated it into plots. Definitely the kind of element where less would be more--it is meant to be a super secret organisation after all.

 

[DonIago]

The number of times they incorporated it into plots? Aren't they in, like, four episodes, tops?

 

[Longinus]

The number of times they incorporated it into plots? Aren't they in, like, four episodes, tops?

Well, that was four episodes too much!

 

[Qonundrum]

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

-George Orwell

So George was unable to enlist?

Back to the OP, Section 31 upholds values. The Federation is enlightened, but it also knows other civilizations may not be. It's simply not a black/white issue. It cannot be in that regard.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

So George was unable to enlist?

Um, George Orwell fought in the Spanish Civil War, and was shot in the throat on the front.
He volunteered for WWII but was declared medically unfit, so he served in the Home Guard instead.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Put it this way: If Section 31 had gotten ahold of the Genesis torpedo from TWOK, I shudder to think of what they would do with it. They'd probably nuke Kronos, Romulus, Tholia, and whatever other worlds they felt like.

*pssst....there was only 1*

 

[TrickyDickie]

I hear the grass is green and the girls are pretty there...

Somebody please take him home.

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[Mr. Laser Beam]

*pssst....there was only 1*

Hence the "IF".

 

[TrickyDickie]

So....Just came across this. Taking Star Trek's direction, especially in more recent incarnations, to back up the idea that at heart we are all no-good sinners. Section 31 is brought into it, so I thought it was quite relevant here.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...nal-frontier-the-darkness-of-the-human-heart/

It's quite disgusting when the religious right twists everything around to suit themselves and to promote the idea that they have been 'right' all along.

 

[Lord Garth]

So....Just came across this. Taking Star Trek's direction, especially in more recent incarnations, to back up the idea that at heart we are all no-good sinners. Section 31 is brought into it, so I thought it was quite relevant here.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...nal-frontier-the-darkness-of-the-human-heart/

It's quite disgusting when the religious right twists everything around to suit themselves and to promote the idea that they have been 'right' all along.