It's not pretty well known. We only see characters that are involved with Section 31 activities. The average person within Starfleet would have no idea.
Section 31: I hope it still happens.
- Thread starter FredH
- Start date
Only Starfleet Officers knew about it on a need-to-know basis. They weren't as strict about it in the 2250s as they were in the 2370s. Then Section 31 goes deep underground after "Such Sweet Sorrow", and the Starfleet Officers who knew about it still know about it... but by the time you get to 120 years later, none of them would still be around.
We can also look at it this way:
1) In the 22nd century, a shady cabal calling itself "Section 31" as a reference to the UE Starfleet charter, and featuring prominent UE Starfleet Intelligence agents and assorted others in its ranks, engages in illegal operations, with the intent of advancing Earth's cause as chauvinistically as possible. It is not sanctioned, acknowledged or even known about by any part of the government, least of all Starfleet, but it gets to misuse government resources because its members are suitably positioned and capable of committing all sorts of high-level crimes with impunity. This organization trips on its two left feet at some point and ceases to exist, but not before doing damage to the reputation of Earth and its Starfleet Intelligence.
2) In the 23rd century, UFP Starfleet Intelligence is a powerful and competent organization. It has assorted Sections for assorted purposes - and the one tasked with threat analysis and sketching of outlandish responses calls itself "Section 31" as an in-joke, just as it gives its intel cutters NCIA-prefix registries ("Get it, boss, NCIA, huh? Huh?"), maintains a field headquarters at the Lubyanka Station, and otherwise makes fun of the dark history of intelligence gathering. It is reasonably well known in Starfleet circles, as everybody makes good use of the threat analysis, and many are aware of this being conducted by the impressive AI named Control that is apparently of S31 manufacture and, initially at least, has its output filtered through S31. This organization, too, falls out of favor due to mistakes made, but its vital job never goes away - so a bureaucratic sleight of hand results in SF Intel naming its threat analysis force Department 47 instead.
3) The name lives in infamy, though. Assorted cabals keep on cropping up almost weekly, and about 47 of them decide to call themselves Section 31, although at least two accidentally call themselves Section 13 instead. Most have a membership of two, the rest generally featuring just one member who maintains sixteen holoprofiles for those interesting Cabal Tuesday discussions. As of the 2370s, at least one of these cabals is run by a former SF Intel agent who has many holographic friends and occasionally manages to fool real people into his crazy LARP schemes, too.
Timo Saloniemi
1) In the 22nd century, a shady cabal calling itself "Section 31" as a reference to the UE Starfleet charter, and featuring prominent UE Starfleet Intelligence agents and assorted others in its ranks, engages in illegal operations, with the intent of advancing Earth's cause as chauvinistically as possible. It is not sanctioned, acknowledged or even known about by any part of the government, least of all Starfleet, but it gets to misuse government resources because its members are suitably positioned and capable of committing all sorts of high-level crimes with impunity. This organization trips on its two left feet at some point and ceases to exist, but not before doing damage to the reputation of Earth and its Starfleet Intelligence.
2) In the 23rd century, UFP Starfleet Intelligence is a powerful and competent organization. It has assorted Sections for assorted purposes - and the one tasked with threat analysis and sketching of outlandish responses calls itself "Section 31" as an in-joke, just as it gives its intel cutters NCIA-prefix registries ("Get it, boss, NCIA, huh? Huh?"), maintains a field headquarters at the Lubyanka Station, and otherwise makes fun of the dark history of intelligence gathering. It is reasonably well known in Starfleet circles, as everybody makes good use of the threat analysis, and many are aware of this being conducted by the impressive AI named Control that is apparently of S31 manufacture and, initially at least, has its output filtered through S31. This organization, too, falls out of favor due to mistakes made, but its vital job never goes away - so a bureaucratic sleight of hand results in SF Intel naming its threat analysis force Department 47 instead.
3) The name lives in infamy, though. Assorted cabals keep on cropping up almost weekly, and about 47 of them decide to call themselves Section 31, although at least two accidentally call themselves Section 13 instead. Most have a membership of two, the rest generally featuring just one member who maintains sixteen holoprofiles for those interesting Cabal Tuesday discussions. As of the 2370s, at least one of these cabals is run by a former SF Intel agent who has many holographic friends and occasionally manages to fool real people into his crazy LARP schemes, too.
Timo Saloniemi
That's exactly why I don't want Section 31. I rather they portray the Federation as a good organization and don't tarnish it with ugliness so much.
I'm not big on the whole Section 31 thing, but I could work with the premise, and Yeoh is yummy. The problem I'm seeing (and I'm sure I'm missing part of the answer) is that if Mirror Georgiou went to the 32nd century with the Discovery, and works with Section 31 then and there... who cares? And if she comes back to the 23rd century (or maybe even PIC's time?) then why would she use her future knowledge to help keep the Federation intact with Section 31, rather than trying to take it over, and also, wouldn't any efforts that she makes in either direction alter the future and make Discovery's 32nd century either gone or irrelevant?
So many timey-wimey problems, and while it's been fine in the past to handwave them for the premise of a good episode now and then, it's going to be really hard to do if an entire series' premise is wrapped up in them, unless it's all done perfectly. (As Enterprise found out.)
So many timey-wimey problems, and while it's been fine in the past to handwave them for the premise of a good episode now and then, it's going to be really hard to do if an entire series' premise is wrapped up in them, unless it's all done perfectly. (As Enterprise found out.)
Well, that's easy. Being well-known led to their near destruction and the almost started the end of all sentient life in the galaxy. In an attempt to cover their embarrassment, they got overzealous about the cover-up
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Gonzo
Guest
I don't mind if they do go ahead with the S31 show, I just wonder if S31 has enough broad appeal and substance to warrant a full show of its own, it will sink or swim on the scripts alone.
It certainly helps its chances that it would only be 10 episodes a season, I really don't think it would be viable if it was a full 20+ episodes per season.
I do feel it is better in small doses like what we saw in DS9, it will lose its appeal if it becomes too visible and mainstream.
It certainly helps its chances that it would only be 10 episodes a season, I really don't think it would be viable if it was a full 20+ episodes per season.
I do feel it is better in small doses like what we saw in DS9, it will lose its appeal if it becomes too visible and mainstream.
Another Star Trek show that will be hate watched by its critics? Bring it on!
I would retcon S31 to be more like the IMF in Mission impossible, the idea that Starfleet does not have a black op section cos its oh so pure as the driven snow is laughable.
Oh well.
I would retcon S31 to be more like the IMF in Mission impossible, the idea that Starfleet does not have a black op section cos its oh so pure as the driven snow is laughable.
Oh well.
4) In the 32rd century, Section 31 takes over the galaxy, the UFP is dismantled and becomes the United Sections of 31
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Which won't be an issue since we're likely never getting twenty episode seasons of a Star Trek show again.
While it could be cool like Mission Impossible, they could also end up being charmingly bungling like Agents of Shield...
Maybe just go full Marvel Cinematic Universe's Hydra and have the Tal Shiar as a secret agency of "Vulcans" within Section 31!
^^^Maybe just go full Marvel Cinematic Universe's Hydra and have the Tal Shiar as a secret agency of "Vulcans" within Section 31!
That would be more like what they set up with "Star Trek: Picard".
Exactly. With the amazing capabilities that Discovery potentially had with the spore drive, how would Section 31 not be deeply interested in it, especially during wartime? It wouldn't make sense for them to be aloof from that kind of thing.
Is there any connection between the spore drive and the USS Excelsior's sabotaged transwarp I wonder...? There's a good 30 years between where Section 31 could be trying to recreate the spore drive under the name of transwarp.
I'm curious what they've got in mind for Section 31. I'm imagining long-suffering Ash Tyler trying to keep Georgiou from assassinating one senator at a galactic conference by making the nearest sun go supernova.
Or they had their memories wiped since there are species who live for over 200 years e.g Vulcans.
Who hatewatches this shit?
Or alternatively. While starfleet officers serve on the same ship for years and decades, starfleet enlisted frequently transfer between ships to satsify manpower requirements. Once a small number of the below decks crew learned of S31, knowledge and details of S31 spread throught the fleet in only a few years and the knowledge of S31 is perpetuated through old hands telling new recruits. Forever.
However, there is a social barrier seperating starfleet officers and crew, and officers rarely if ever hear the stories.
Starfleet has good players and bad, this goes for the federation as well.
And the same would be true about S31 internally, I think that (maybe) what we saw in the second season of STD could have been a rogue segment of S31.
I'd love a Section 31 show but not based on how they portrayed them in Discovery. They just threw out everything that was set up on DS9 which I hated. Easily the worst thing about Discovery S2 IMO. If they continue that way then I have zero interest in it.
No, because Scotty only sabotaged the drive. The drive wasn't faulty. So it's probable that all new ships after the Excelsior had transwarp drive (including the Enterprise-D) but it wasn't a spore drive.
