Section 31: I hope it still happens.

[FPAlpha]

I don't mind a Section 31 show, i was a bit annoyed when it was announced but at the same time fans were tripping over themselves at the stellar portrayal of Captain Pike and it took them so long to actually do it that it seemed S31 was prioritized over what fans actually wanted.

Now that this has been sorted out i'd like to see a S31 show showing us the darker underbelly of the Federation and the Alpha quadrant in general. I would love to see them explore different power blocks and them engaging with the Tal Shiar, the Obsidian Order and whatever the Klingons have that is called Intelligence, i.e. if all those organizations existed at the time of Discovery (i'm not sure).

If done well we could get a good show out of it and i don't get the "hatred" for it - S31 was one of the most brilliant things to come out of Deep Space Nine and i always enjoyed any episode since their introduction and appearance on Enterprise and Discovery.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm kind of ambivalent about the idea. I like Michelle Yeoh and Mirror Georgiou, and I like the idea of doing a Trek series different from the traditional formula. But this, I don't know. Part of the problem,

i don't get the "hatred" for it - S31 was one of the most brilliant things to come out of Deep Space Nine and i always enjoyed any episode since their introduction and appearance on Enterprise and Discovery.

I enjoyed Section 31 as it was depicted on DS9 and Enterprise, as a hidden criminal black ops organization. But then STID and Disco went and showed them as a publicly known legitimate organization that has their own fleet of ships, and that Section 31, well, no, that's not really all that appealing at all. Granted, the show could and likely would show how Section 31 turned into what we saw in DS9, but really, I'm not sure there's enough of the idea to carry a series.

 

[Kelso]

I wasn't interested in S31 back when it was DS9's attempt to glom on to the shadowy conspiracy craze. Discovery putting them in leather outfits and mood lighting didn't make them any more interesting.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I enjoyed Section 31 as it was depicted on DS9 and Enterprise, as a hidden criminal black ops organization. But then STID and Disco went and showed them as a publicly known legitimate organization that has their own fleet of ships, and that Section 31, well, no, that's not really all that appealing at all.

STID – the appearance of Nero, the destruction of Vulcan, and the attack on Earth likely led to a change in policy

DSC – that was something observed and contributed to the theory that Discovery was actually a Section 31 ship, along with its registration of NCC-1031.

Granted, the show could and likely would show how Section 31 turned into what we saw in DS9, but really, I'm not sure there's enough of the idea to carry a series.

It would allow for a look at how other species handle similar work and preserve their respective paradises, and the general underbelly of not just the Federation, but the Alpha and Beta Quadrants as well.

 

[The Wormhole]

DSC – that was something observed and contributed to the theory that Discovery was actually a Section 31 ship, along with its registration of NCC-1031.

Certainly the fact the crew wore Starfleet uniforms instead of Section 31 standard issue black leather should prove they weren't a Section 31 ship?

 

[CaptainXaviOfEarth]

Discovery itself is a secretive ship. I would assume only the Discovery crew, a few other ships and the higher ups are familiar with Section 31, and it's not common knowledge.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Certainly the fact the crew wore Starfleet uniforms instead of Section 31 standard issue black leather should prove they weren't a Section 31 ship?

Its about the black Starfleet insignia. Which is synonymous with Section 31 personnel in DSC. And there were personnel wearing them when Burnham boarded Discovery.

 

[captainkirk]

My opinion is that a Section 31 series could only work if the lead is someone who joins Section 31 for idealistic reasons. So kind of like Reed or Tyler. But then they see just how corrupt it is and they decide to try and find ways of bringing it down from the inside, kind of like Bashir. But making Mirror Georgiou the lead doesn't work because she barely has any morals or ideals. We already saw in the S2 finale that she enjoyed watching Leland suffer, and seriously suggested causing a supernova to power the time suit. So she hasn't grown a conscience since leaving the mirror universe.

 

[Lord Garth]

My opinion is that a Section 31 series could only work if the lead is someone who joins Section 31 for idealistic reasons. So kind of like Reed or Tyler. But then they see just how corrupt it is and they decide to try and find ways of bringing it down from the inside, kind of like Bashir. But making Mirror Georgiou the lead doesn't work because she barely has any morals or ideals. We already saw in the S2 finale that she enjoyed watching Leland suffer, and seriously suggested causing a supernova to power the time suit. So she hasn't grown a conscience since leaving the mirror universe.

Yet she also cooperated when the idea to use the supernova was shot down. She's cooperated with Starfleet every step of the way, even when she had different ideas.

She was concerned when Burnham's life was in danger in "The Red Angel" and then in "Perpetual Infinity", Burnham's mother told Georgiou that she knows the good Georgiou has the potential for because she's seen different versions of hundreds of futures. Georgiou asks as Gabrielle Burnham knows who she really is and Gabrielle says she does.

Let's not also forget that it wasn't Leland she killed. Leland was already dead. Control was inhabiting Leland. "Leland" was just a meat suit. It wasn't him. Saru even says so to remind everyone in that episode. Control was determined to wipe out ALL LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE. Sorry for the All Caps, but that was the scale of the stakes. Her getting joy out of destroying Control is like the Officer Workers getting joy out of destroying the computers in Office Space. Sometimes you just want to smash the Hell out of machinery. The face Control had, masquerading as "Leland", was just to fool people and emotionally manipulate them. And apparently it worked in some cases.

And somehow Georgiou keeps somehow helping Burnham. She grew close to her during the Mirror Universe Arc, when they defeated Lorca. And then she helped Burnham save Spock in "If Memory Serves". Sure she said she did it to make Leland look bad, but I think that reason was partially an excuse to save face. I think she genuinely wanted to help Burnham too. She even told Burnham to ask Leland about what happened to her parents in "The Red Angel" (Leland was responsible for what happened to them).

It's going to be a gradual process. She can't just change overnight. This is why we need to see what happens in the third season of Discovery. I feel like we still have incomplete information. I think Gabrielle Burnham's line in "Perpetual Infinity" gives some hint as to where they might take Georgiou in the third season. Like they want to put her through whatever that experience is before they make her the lead in Section 31.

Well, either that or Section 31 will focus on an anti-hero. I like lots of shows about anti-heroes.

They could also make Georgiou like Xena. She'll go through some sort of transformative arc in the third season to get to that point. Either on her own or something will be done to her that causes this change.

Or it could be what you suggest. Focus on someone who wants to change or stop Section 31 from within. I wouldn't be opposed to that type of series either.

 

[Tenacity]

I don't think Michelle Yeoh is such a great actress.

She's a good average actress, but I've never seen her do anything (not just Star Trek) that another average actress couldn't have stepped at that last minute and done the same. Georgiou certainly is one of her lesser performances, it's like she's phoning it in.

The problem is that the Disco version is indistinguishable from the 'regular' SI.

When have we seen enough of "regular" starfleet intelligence to know?

and they decide to try and find ways of bringing it down from the inside

Or reform it from within.

A zelot with a pure heart, and knowledge of the just purpose that formed S31, and that existed up until only a few years before.

 

[NCC-73515]

When have we seen enough of "regular" starfleet intelligence to know?

TNG Pegasus, DS9 Inquisition, Honor Among Thieves, and Inter Arma, ENT Terra Prime

 

[Soong-type Android]

My opinion is that a Section 31 series could only work if the lead is someone who joins Section 31 for idealistic reasons.

Or a Starfleet intelligence operative infiltrating it and the tension it creates of if they will be discovered and exposed. Still wouldn't be an orthodox Trek series though.

 

[Warp Coil]

I would say that I'm not currently excited about a Section 31-themed series, at least not until I hear more about the premise. I think it's a little interesting that Strange New Worlds seems to have leap-frogged over the Section 31 series in terms of the next spin-off on deck. Maybe they're just keeping quiet because they don't want to spill any details on how Michelle Yeoh, who will appear in season 3 of DSC, ends up in her own series (or even what timeframe the series will be set in). Or maybe they're reconsidering elements of the show? I, personally, might be okay with a mini-series or limited series. I guess time will tell.

 

[Ometiklan]

I have no interest in the Section 31 show whatsoever and I hope they reconsider producing it. The idea of a show about a secret ops organization with no oversight just bores me. And I might be in the minority, but I don’t think Michelle Yeoh is all that, and I certainly don’t like her Mirror Georgiou character, especially as a lead.

I really liked Yeoh as regular Georgiou, really disliked her (other than select moments) as Mirror Georgiou.

I'd enjoy a series centered on the demise of Section 31...

Yep.

My opinion is that a Section 31 series could only work if the lead is someone who joins Section 31 for idealistic reasons. So kind of like Reed or Tyler. But then they see just how corrupt it is and they decide to try and find ways of bringing it down from the inside, kind of like Bashir. But making Mirror Georgiou the lead doesn't work because she barely has any morals or ideals. We already saw in the S2 finale that she enjoyed watching Leland suffer, and seriously suggested causing a supernova to power the time suit. So she hasn't grown a conscience since leaving the mirror universe.

...It's going to be a gradual process. She can't just change overnight. This is why we need to see what happens in the third season of Discovery. I feel like we still have incomplete information. I think Gabrielle Burnham's line in "Perpetual Infinity" gives some hint as to where they might take Georgiou in the third season. Like they want to put her through whatever that experience is before they make her the lead in Section 31.

Well, either that or Section 31 will focus on an anti-hero. I like lots of shows about anti-heroes.

They could also make Georgiou like Xena. She'll go through some sort of transformative arc in the third season to get to that point. Either on her own or something will be done to her that causes this change.

Or it could be what you suggest. Focus on someone who wants to change or stop Section 31 from within. I wouldn't be opposed to that type of series either.

When it was "announced" that Georgiou would be sticking around and would join Section 31, I thought the only way they would really keep such a terrible character around in the Prime Universe would be to have her learn the error of her ways by interacting with the "good" Federation and contrasting it with the immoral Section 31. She would work within 31, but undermine them, eventually "destroying" them where they would be forced to go underground until discovered in DS9. But after the little-to-nothing they did to improve character in Discovery season 2, I don't hold out a lot of hope. Maybe they did more than I thought (as you point out Garth); I guess I should rewatch season 2 and check again for myself.

 

[The Wormhole]

Discovery itself is a secretive ship. I would assume only the Discovery crew, a few other ships and the higher ups are familiar with Section 31, and it's not common knowledge.

Certainly is depicted as common knowledge in season 2, with Pike, Michael and Tyler all instantly recognizing the black badges as being Section 31.

Its about the black Starfleet insignia. Which is synonymous with Section 31 personnel in DSC. And there were personnel wearing them when Burnham boarded Discovery.

Those guys were conveniently forgotten about after that scene, and indeed in season 2 it's even implied they were off the ship shortly after that too. When Tyler is first brought into Section 31, he says he's heard of them but never met anyone from Section 31 before. Which, given he was Disco's chief of security would make it odd he never met the Section 31 security personnel assigned to the ship.

 

[Tenacity]

I think it's a little interesting that Strange New Worlds seems to have leap-frogged over the Section 31 series in terms of the next spin-off on deck

The popularity of the Pike character.

I know there are people here who all but scream "don't listen to the fans," but listening to the fans is what's getting us a Pike series.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Those guys were conveniently forgotten about after that scene, and indeed in season 2 it's even implied they were off the ship shortly after that too. When Tyler is first brought into Section 31, he says he's heard of them but never met anyone from Section 31 before. Which, given he was Disco's chief of security would make it odd he never met the Section 31 security personnel assigned to the ship.

Not really. It’s a secretive black ops organization known only by a select few. It wasn’t obvious that Reed had ties to Section 31 until the Klingon Augment virus arc. And because of that event, both Archer and T’Pol (who herself used to work for the Vulcan Ministry of Security) also had knowledge of Section 31. Maybe Hoshi too, but it was never confirmed that she knew.

Its entirely possible that other members of the Discovery crew had ties to Section 31. They just weren’t open about it. Even the admirals in charge of Section 31 in DSC weren’t wearing black badges. Only the security personnel assigned to Discovery were, regardless as to how long they stuck around.

The only thing odd about Section 31 in DSC is that there is open knowledge about their existence. Which clearly suggests that sometime between the Terra Prime arc in ENT and the Federation-Klingon War in DSC they rose in influence in the Federation. Which is something I don’t think Reed and Archer would have allowed to happen.

 

[The Wormhole]

Even the admirals in charge of Section 31 in DSC weren’t wearing black badges. Only the security personnel assigned to Discovery were, regardless as to how long they stuck around.

Leland, Georgiou and Tyler were also wearing black badges. In the Short Trek The Girl Who Made the Stars, Michael's father also wears a black badge. Though that creates its own problems, since Michael knows the black badge means Section 31, but is surprised to learn her father was with Section 31.

 

[brandnewfan]

I want to know how Section 31 went from being pretty well known during Discovery to nobody knowing anything about it in DS9.

 

[CaptainXaviOfEarth]

Certainly is depicted as common knowledge in season 2, with Pike, Michael and Tyler all instantly recognizing the black badges as being Section 31.

Yes, because these are all characters on the "inside". I presume everybody on USS Discovery knows Section 31, as we've seen Section 31 officers onboard since as far back as Episode 3. Everyone obviously has a strict NDA of some sort. I mean, everyone on board is keeping the Mirror Universe a secret, so keeping Section 31 a secret isn't hard.

But take, say, Ensign Bob on the USS Europa (RIP), he probably has no idea who Section 31 are, because he's not on the "inside". His ship doesn't actively work with Section 31.