Spoilers Section 31 General Discussion Thread

[Ray Hardgrit]

How many of you in here got into Star Trek when you were a kid or relatively young?

I saw some of the TOS movies when I was a tiny baby, but I became a Trek fan watching TNG when I was 8. Started getting the comics, the magazine, the fact files, all of that stuff. It felt like a grown up show that kids were absolutely encouraged to enjoy too.

Beyond that, I feel like Section 31 shouldn't be Guardians of the Galaxy. If there's an MCU equivalent tone I think it should be aiming for, it would be the Captain America movies. Those movies could be quippy and fun, but overall had a serious tone as Marvel's take on the political thriller. Those movies have an underlying theme of how far is too far to go in the name of "security" which seems exactly what a Section 31 centered piece should be about.

Yeah, it seems really strange to me that they're so determined to combine 'misfits blowing things up and being rebels' and 'Starfleet conspiracy subverting the Federation's ideals', I guess because a producer likes the name? Section 31 have never been the fun team, they're one step away from being Hydra.

 

[BillJ]

I got into Star Trek from watching TNG when I was about 8 years old.

It's another anecdote, but my niece and nephew got into Trek from watching TNG re-runs when they were in their teens and pre teens. Neither of them like the new Trek shows.

My daughter, 30, loves TNG. Even has a diagram of the 1701-D in her living room. She wants nothing to do with Picard or the other CBS shows.

 

[Borgminister]

My daughter, 30, loves TNG. Even has a diagram of the 1701-D in her living room. She wants nothing to do with Picard or the other CBS shows.

Not sure I'll live long enough for a reboot, but my spirit would welcome one!

 

[The + Kid]

I think this trailer was trying to convey a "not your nerd's Star Trek film" type of vibe. In reality, this film is really only for people who watched and liked the first two and a bit seasons of Discovery, but all the hardcore fans have already made up their minds on whether or not they want to see it. So they're leaning on it being completely different than normal Trek which... I don't think will work very well.

That looks exactly like what it's trying to do. It's like they're saying this is not your father's or your grandfather's Star Trek.

Will it work? Who knows.

Also, it's Section 31. So it was never going to be the traditional ship, captain and crew dynamic. It was always going to be something other than that.

Paramount is probably looking at ST fan demographic data and seeing they don't have many sub middle age fans.

This trailer and the academy show feel like misguided attempts to address that issue.

Of course the reason P+ Star Trek doesn't have many young viewers is likely because the shows are either too reliant on links to old Trek and/or aren't very good.

They're in a tough spot. Continue catering to an aging and dwindling fanbase, or go in another direction.

It feels like they're doing the latter.

If it works, great. And if not, it was all going to end at some point anyway. And if Star Trek laid dormant for 5 or 10 years, when it came back it would inevitably be reinvented. The Next Generation was different than The Original Series. And Discovery was different than The Next Generation-era shows. And whatever comes after this era will also be a different kind of Star Trek.

 

[Dukhat]

That looks exactly like what it's trying to do. It's like they're saying this is not your father's or your grandfather's Star Trek.

Will it work? Who knows.

It didn’t work for ENT. It was initially described as ‘not your father’s Star Trek,’ and ‘the first show that fans and non-fans can enjoy.’ And look how that turned out. They realized they made a huge mistake and backpedaled to such a degree that the final season was literally a memberberry fest of TOS and TNG.

 

[HotRod]

It didn’t work for ENT. It was initially described as ‘not your father’s Star Trek,’ and ‘the first show that fans and non-fans can enjoy.’ And look how that turned out. They realized they made a huge mistake and backpedaled to such a degree that the final season was literally a memberberry fest of TOS and TNG.

Yeah, but they really didn't try very hard to make it "un-trek like." Really, all they did was take Star Trek outta the title and give it a soft rock theme song. EVERYTHING beyond that was still VERY Star Trek.

Say what you will about Kurtzman, but he definitely put a lot more effort into making the shows "not your father's Star Trek."

 

[Quinton]

Which is not promising at all.

Trailers are about putting the best foot forward.

Yeah, I get that.

 

[Nenya]

I don’t tell people I like Star Trek anymore.

 

[Tuskin38]

This is the first Star Trek trailer I can remember watching and thinking, I'm good.

I'll watch it, since it's just a movie. But if it was an entire series, I'd probably not.

 

[The + Kid]

It didn’t work for ENT. It was initially described as ‘not your father’s Star Trek,’ and ‘the first show that fans and non-fans can enjoy.’ And look how that turned out. They realized they made a huge mistake and backpedaled to such a degree that the final season was literally a memberberry fest of TOS and TNG.

As was said, was Enterprise really any different than any other Star Trek? The time it was set was different, but other than that it was still the traditional ship, captain and crew dynamic. And nothing's wrong with that really, but it was what it was.

This Section 31 idea, if they had gone ahead and made it into a series, would have been a different dynamic. Would it have been good or bad? Who knows.

This Starfleet Academy idea, that's obviously going to be a different dynamic than the traditional Star Trek one. I kind of have a feeling it's going to work. And that's probably because I like everything that they're doing so far, but who knows if it'll work either.

If all else fails I guess they can always go with Strange New Worlds and have people turn into Vulcans or whatever.

That's wrong, I shouldn't joke about that show, lots of people like it.

No, ultimately they should try different things. A show set at the Daystrom Institute may be interesting. Or this Starfleet Academy show, maybe they can partner that with a show set at the Vulcan Science Academy? That could be fun... maybe.

 

[eschaton]

Yeah, but they really didn't try very hard to make it "un-trek like." Really, all they did was take Star Trek outta the title and give it a soft rock theme song. EVERYTHING beyond that was still VERY Star Trek.

100%. The first two seasons of ENT basically continued the TNG/VOY format, which had run for 14 concurrent seasons already. The only main difference was they decided, because mankind was less advanced, to make the characters more flawed. Unfortunately, in practice that ended up meaning a captain who made stupid mistakes and had to be bailed out by his XO over, and over, and over.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's an interesting question who the most famous young actor to have ever appeared in Trek was. The series so rarely cast anyone under 30 for any roles at all.

Wheaton and Burton. At least pre-casting. Ashley Judd became bigger after Trek. Scarlett Pomers has a long run on Reba.

 

[HotRod]

Choosing to focus on some positives, I'm liking this look for Rachel Garrett.

Being that she seems to be the only member of the cast who is explicitly part of Starfleet, I'm thinking she's wearing some lost era Starfleet tactical gear, complete with our first look at a Starfleet Phaser from this time period.

 

[Jayson1]

Point being that you don't need to pander to age demographics. Just make something good.

Stop trend chasing.

Young people aren't as stupid as adults think. Putting hip hop music in this won't get teenagers to watch.

The movie does look like it was made for TIk Tok fans who would no doubt rather be watching and making Tik Tok's than watching boring old Boomer Star Trek. The irony is they will still likely keep doing the Tik Tok thing while the only people watching will be older fans hate watching and of course Youtubers looking for content. The reverse "Prodigy" experience where old people watch something made for young people because they like it ,vs this where they will watch something made for young people because they hate it.

 

[aquova]

The reverse "Prodigy" experience where old people watch something made for young people because they like it ,vs this where they will watch something made for young people because they hate it.

Having just watched Prodigy for the first time, I had a similar thought. Prodigy is a kid's show, sure, but I would argue it embodies the spirit of the older shows better than any of the other recent shows. It's taking those concepts and wrapping them up in a new way to appeal to a new generation. From what we can see of this trailer, it also wants to branch out to a new demographic, but feels more like it's trying to trick audiences before they notice it has "Star Trek" written in the title.

 

[Jayson1]

I think SNW fits into that idea as well. Granted it was going for a older audience than Prodigy but it is still a show that us built around appealing to both old and new fans. The Kelvinverse movies even did that as well. This idea that we must dumb something down just so young people will like it doesn't have to be something one does when making a new show or movie. Granted younger fans do tend to like things with faster pacing than you use to have but once again you can still do stuff that is quality if you try.

 

[eschaton]

Having just watched Prodigy for the first time, I had a similar thought. Prodigy is a kid's show, sure, but I would argue it embodies the spirit of the older shows better than any of the other recent shows. It's taking those concepts and wrapping them up in a new way to appeal to a new generation. From what we can see of this trailer, it also wants to branch out to a new demographic, but feels more like it's trying to trick audiences before they notice it has "Star Trek" written in the title.

Again, I guess I could see it, if the concept didn't seem ten years too late, and the main character being an Asian woman who is almost old enough now to collect Social Security.

To be clear, Michelle Yeoh is awesomesauce, but I don't think she has huge Gen Z appeal. Everything, Everywhere all at Once really upped her prominence, but it was fundamentally an indie/artsy film. Her new fans from that won't want to come for action schlock.

 

[fireproof78]

No, ultimately they should try different things. A show set at the Daystrom Institute may be interesting. Or this Starfleet Academy show, maybe they can partner that with a show set at the Vulcan Science Academy? That could be fun... maybe.

Yup.

Please, try something different.

To borrow a quote from SFDebris, "A man's reach should exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for."

 

[johnjm22]

More than a third of House of the Dragon's viewership is under 34 years of age.

And this is a show written by an old white guy involving a medieval setting.

Younger viewers are watching the show because its GOOD.

 

[fireproof78]

Haven't seen it.

Haven't seen Section 31 either.

Defining good is a dubious proposition.