Spoilers Section 31 General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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I posted this elsewhere, but it works just as well here. (link)
cutting-and-pasting
I was always going to [watch]. I've just re-adjusted my expectations to this is probably going to be a Guilty Pleasure of mine. Would I like to be wrong? Of course! And, if I am, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. But if I have a good time watching this as a Guilty Pleasure, then I'll still be okay with it because that's what I'll be expecting.
I've been watching a bunch of older Michelle Yeoh films. I just hit the '90s. I don't know about her '90s films yet (besides Tomorrow Never Dies), but her '80s stuff falls into the Guilty Pleasure category. I had a great time watching them, but not the type of stuff that I'd ever say is top-tier best of the best. They're Hong Kong action movies where the story only exists so as to set up all the action scenes and the comedy, which is what the audiences were really there to see. If Section 31 is like this, then it'll fit in with other Michelle Yeoh films I've been watching so far like a glove.
cutting-and-pasting
I was always going to [watch]. I've just re-adjusted my expectations to this is probably going to be a Guilty Pleasure of mine. Would I like to be wrong? Of course! And, if I am, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. But if I have a good time watching this as a Guilty Pleasure, then I'll still be okay with it because that's what I'll be expecting.
I've been watching a bunch of older Michelle Yeoh films. I just hit the '90s. I don't know about her '90s films yet (besides Tomorrow Never Dies), but her '80s stuff falls into the Guilty Pleasure category. I had a great time watching them, but not the type of stuff that I'd ever say is top-tier best of the best. They're Hong Kong action movies where the story only exists so as to set up all the action scenes and the comedy, which is what the audiences were really there to see. If Section 31 is like this, then it'll fit in with other Michelle Yeoh films I've been watching so far like a glove.
Interesting bits (what I like and what I dislike):
(Edited to add spoiler tags since the thread doesn't have one)
- Movie instead of series meant faster pace, more action, different production style than the other new shows. Being action-heavy, always have something happening, was Osunsanmi's goal. () One noticeable difference to Disco is a phase fight, an extended Dune-esque battle spread across sets, moving through walls, which on Disco would've used one set, but in 31 uses 7 different ones. The film barely lets up on the action for the full running time. (
) The fight at the end goes on for quite a while (
), but has an ambitious emotional aspect.
- We get some insight into the emperor's early life
- Still feels like Star Trek, but in contrast to procedural, typical Star Trek, with naval moral dilemma episodes, 31 is more of a ragtag group who break moral traditions, but still untraditionally morally motivated, pointing in the direction of ultimate good, but using more circumvent-y ways
- A Discovery set was turned into a Terran set, Federation HQ was turned into a Section 31 outpost safe house
- Zeph is really happy to just be bouncing around, and really enjoys smashing stuff (wonderful...). He constantly augmented himself with tech and accidentally injured his spine so much that he now needs the Borgish suit to function (like a wheelchair would in previous times), with parallels to Geordi's perspective on disability
- There will be Klingons and Andorians in it (let's see which version...)
- The central concept is that there is no black and white since even the best and most moral people that have ever lived had to do bad things for progress (), and that you can root for the middle. Another theme is Georgiou's multifacetedness, that there’s more sides to a person than one.
- The Chameloids are different from the Founders and other shapeshifters, and Quasi doesn't trust Georgiou at all because she's a murderous rogue. The yellow contact lenses were suggested by the actor as a tribute to Martia, they thought he wouldn't need them as a shapeshifter and his eyes could be anything (while in TUC they always stayed)
- Section 31 in this movie is the covert arm of the Federation (not of Starfleet, and what is SI then?)
- It was Yeoh's idea to change from series to movie, and she was heavily involved in the entire production process
- Section 31 opens up new possibilities to grow the franchise with more to come if successful
Lost era console (?) and Zeph's suit
I presume that "Moving through walls" will have something to do with Daniels' technology that has been acquired by S31. Somehow, somewhen. It doesn't sound very 'Lost Era' tech otherwise.
Zeph still really looks like an early 'Q Who' Borg. I don't know, a shiny silver might've helped, perhaps? Doesn't matter, whatever. It's nice to have some context.
Bonus points to the actor who plays Quasi. Nice touch.
The console does look interesting. It's a bit 80s, evocative of Star Trek V.
Zeph still really looks like an early 'Q Who' Borg. I don't know, a shiny silver might've helped, perhaps? Doesn't matter, whatever. It's nice to have some context.
Bonus points to the actor who plays Quasi. Nice touch.
The console does look interesting. It's a bit 80s, evocative of Star Trek V.
Maybe now that it's just a few weeks away, the thread should get a spoiler tag.
I really hope the neverending action doesn't mean 90% of the film is rapid-cut shaky motion blur with the only dialog being "Egh! Ugh! Ogh! Mph! Huagh!", which the fight scenes in almost all new films and shows have degraded to... why even choreograph and write scenes if you don't even see and hear much? Perhaps this one will reverse the trend and have meaningful action
Oh that's right, Daniels left some device for Archer to use, right? And we never saw if he took it back 
Let's hope this does not lead into the Borg as Control already seemed to suggest
Let's hope this does not lead into the Borg
as Control already seemed to suggest I really hope the neverending action doesn't mean 90% of the film is rapid-cut shaky motion blur with the only dialog being "Egh! Ugh! Ogh! Mph! Huagh!", which the fight scenes in almost all new films and shows have degraded to... why even choreograph and write scenes if you don't even see and hear much? Perhaps this one will reverse the trend and have meaningful action
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This. Not only did Garak kill and torture many, many people as part of the obsidian order, but he took great pleasure in doing so. Like, when he talks to Enabran Tain about torturing a civilian doctor, the glint of joy in Garak's eye is totally genuine. Garak may have liked the crew of DS9 but he was also willing to let them all be killed when he attempted to use the Defiant to genocide the Founders. Garak never once shows remorse for his actions, nor does he ever attempt to redeem himself and yet Odo is having coffee with him and Bashir spends his lunch breaks talking philosophy and boring, repetitive Cardassian literature with him.
Georgiou is also a monster, but she is the product of a society where actions like hers are the norm and do otherwise would be seen as weakness. The moment Georgiou realises that a better path is possible, even before, she meets the guardian, she starts walking it. But it's still not enough because she is sPaCE HItLEr
So is Garak.
That's not to say the same is true for every Cardassian, but it was for Garak.
Ok, so they seem to be getting the computers right. They also seemed to be getting the hand phasers right. Putting aside our opinions on plot and characters, there at least seems to be someone behind the scenes who knows what they're doing in terms of production design appropriate to the era.
As a ship and tech nerd, I'll admit I'm starting to be hopeful. Maybe we will see an Excelsior or Ambassador. Maybe even a new design for the era?
As a ship and tech nerd, I'll admit I'm starting to be hopeful. Maybe we will see an Excelsior or Ambassador. Maybe even a new design for the era?
I for one don’t need to see the Excelsior ever again. But the Ambassador was only seen on screen a total of four times in the entirety of Star Trek. I want to see it again, and how it looked originally, not some weird reimagining of it. They can use whatever reimagined designs for other ships of the era.
It's one era that doesn't really need any significant visual rebooting. You just need to add stuff on top of the stuff we know. You can have an Ambassador class, and have a variant (beyond the Yamaguchi). Same with the uniforms, Monster Maroon plus an unseen uniform type. No erasures, just additions.
Lower Decks' take on things like the updated Monster Maroons is that it all coexists with the TOS costumes we're familiar with, people wore both types, and I'm willing to go along with that unless S31 makes a real effort to say otherwise.
It appears at one point they had the first season of a Section 31 series written:
trekmovie.com
Director Talks Retooling ‘Section 31’ From A Series And Says It Can Lead To More Streaming Star Trek Movies
Olatunde Osunsanmi talks about the new movie in the brand-new issue of SFX.
trekmovie.com
I wouldn't be too unhappy. It's well within the realm of "same, but with things added to it".Here's a question. Would anyone take issue if we saw some Lost Era Monster Maroons, but they were based off Admiral Pike's uniform from SNW?
If they could just tweak that strap so its closer to the concept art.
Bring on the Probert ConCept, it's about time
For another ship class, sure. Not for the Ambassador class
Here's a question. Would anyone take issue if we saw some Lost Era Monster Maroons, but they were based off Admiral Pike's uniform from SNW?
I’d be completely fine with that. Alternately, I’d also be fine with a different uniform that we just conveniently ‘never saw’ before. I personally have never liked the idea that Starfleet used the maroons from the 2280s through the 2340s without practically any changes at all. I just wouldn’t want them to come up with a design that doesn’t flow from the maroons to the TNG season 1 uniforms.
In some ways, I was fine with the MMs being used for a long time as a dress uniform (which is the reasonable use case of the full outfit) and indeed being the basis for most of the dress uniforms for a couple of decades after (the 2370s "penguin suit" is the first that truly splits off from it).
What I'm hoping is that the update the "service uniform" and/or "working uniform" options.
The concept version looked so much better. I still don't understand what the costumers were thinking with that weird extension to the strap that takes it nearly to the center of the chest. To me, it felt like making a change just to make a change and it doesn't look good.
That's sadly a common thing in Hollywood these days - studios and/or producers requiring a "mini room" to draft up a season before it gets greenlit. Often, it's only the showrunner that gets paid decently for the work, and the cowriters never get hired on for the final show or get credits they can use for future projects or towards their minimums to qualify for the guild's insurance plans. That was one of the things the WGA went on strike over last year.It appears at one point they had the first season of a Section 31 series written:
Director Talks Retooling ‘Section 31’ From A Series And Says It Can Lead To More Streaming Star Trek Movies
Olatunde Osunsanmi talks about the new movie in the brand-new issue of SFX.
I sometimes wonder if it was an in-joke to represent a future that is a bit off. The flap is a bit askew because the timelime is also?
I agree with you in theory; unfortunately YE pretty much proves that the MM were used as regular duty uniforms (and even the cadet uniforms were still being used.) But, as with the update to the TMP/TWOK phaser, I’m hoping there will be an update to the uniforms as well. It’s the one ‘visual reinterpretation’ that I’d be fine with.
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