Spoilers Section 31 General Discussion Thread

[Amaris]

While I respect your opinion, I will respectfully disagree largely because I do not believe Star Trek has influence, or if any very limited. And two, I think that it would invite the discussion that I think is more pressing and that is what does it mean to change. I don't think Andor does as good of a job with discussing that because Andor presents the same level of violence as acceptable so long as it's in service to the Rebellion. And that's it.

I honestly welcome this in Star Trek because it invites what does it mean for humanity to grow and to change, and become closer to the Trek idea of a growing humanity means exploring all facets of humanity and exploring how we can change. I don't think it glorifies it so much as it shines a light on this behavior and what the consequences can be.

If that's what they go for, how evil organizations can twist "good" to mean whatever they want to justify their absolute power and control over living beings while destroying their rights (which DS9 already did), then it can be used for good.

If, instead, it is presented as most police and military dramas are presented in mainstream America, then it will just reinforce the notion that even evil Space Hitlers can join an organization and kill in the name of "peace and order" which will be seen as a positive thing rather than the very underpinnings of fascism.

 

[fireproof78]

If, instead, it is presented as most police and military dramas are presented in mainstream America, then it will just reinforce the notion that even evil Space Hitlers can join an organization and kill in the name of "peace and order" which will be seen as a positive thing rather than the very underpinnings of fascism.

I strongly suspect this will not be the case.

But then I don't mind the occasional police procedural. I also don't mind organized crime shows. I don't think these shows reflect any particular value necessarily or glorify one particular aspect. I think it's just drama and entertainment first, and potentially socially influencing last.

 

[Amaris]

I strongly suspect this will not be the case.

But then I don't mind the occasional police procedural. I also don't mind organized crime shows. I don't think these shows reflect any particular value necessarily or glorify one particular aspect. I think it's just drama and entertainment first, and potentially socially influencing last.

Except police shows have always been about propaganda, and the entertainment was designed to support it.

https://chicagoreader.com/film/how-dragnet-became-a-pr-coup-for-law-enforcement/

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/485964/summary

And it works:
https://www.kpcc.org/show/the-frame...mas-have-on-perception-of-police-use-of-force

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture...acts-that-sergeant-joe-friday-ignored/395591/

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/06/803292027/tv-cop-shows-affect-real-world-policing-study-says

https://www.vox.com/culture/2237541...tone-cops-brooklyn-nine-nine-wire-blue-bloods

https://studybreaks.com/tvfilm/cop-shows-propaganda/

It's why the US military gets to read and approve scripts of military films released in the US, because it is highly effective propaganda, and an image has to be maintained. If they don't like your script and you don't change it, you don't get to use their image or their equipment that they have set aside for that purpose:

https://www.defense.gov/News/Inside-DOD/blog/article/2062735/how-why-the-dod-works-with-hollywood/

https://www.vox.com/23141487/top-gun-maverick-us-military-hollywood-oscar-winner-best-sound

So I believe concern is warranted here.

 

[Commander Troi]

I think a tv movie is a good idea.

 

[fireproof78]

So I believe concern is warranted here.

I'll wait and see. I'm not concerned right now.

 

[locborg]

Section 31 is a genocidal organization. If it takes a génocidaire to put an end to this depraved blot on the Federation once and for all, I'm all for it. I'm fascinated by this. I've waited ages for this to happen, and I can't wait to see what they do.

if the show isn’t somehow set in the 25th century, it’s highly unlikely that the movie’s story will end with the destruction of s31, or even change of moral standards. S31 was still an ugly, ruthless organization at the end of the 24th century and way too many Trek stories declared S31 to be a necessary evil.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Interesting. Star Trek's first TV-movie.

 

[Timofnine]

Ok now that I know that this is a movie I am 100% behind this and cannot wait!

I’m guessing a TV movie though… would love to see something like this in the cinema.

 

[JoseNoodles]

If nothing else, this establishes a precedent for shorter Trek-themed productions in the future, which can encourage more interesting approaches to Trek that probably wouldn't work as a series or big-budget film.

 

[thribs]

So another Star Trek movie that’ll probably never happen

 

[JoseNoodles]

This looks more likely to happen than a Star Trek theatrical film.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I'm so tired of Section 31 taking centre stage.

One movie makes for "center stage"?
S31 was only large-ish in DSC during S2. On ENT and DS9 it was here and there over the course of a few seasons each.

Interesting. Star Trek's first TV-movie.

What about Star Trek Meets The Six Million Dollar Man?

 

[shyborg]

The worst part is:
Either this succeeds, and we will get more Trek where unabashed fascist are portrayed as the only rational heroes.

Or this fails as hard as it should, and will also bury all future one-off Trek streaming movies with it.

Just don't glorify fascists! It shouldn't be that hard, people...

I think sometimes even when characters are portrayed properly, not every viewer is going to view it the same way. Nazis, hate groups, and fascists have been portrayed for who they truly are. But they still have supporters. Art can influence others in positive and negatives ways. But sometimes, a person will twist art into something that justifies their values/beliefs.

Mirror Georgiou isn't a perfect character but she's still someone who has tried to change for the better. Not that it makes up for every bad things she has done. I hope the movie doesn't have regress to Mirror-verse or Section 31 values. I rather see her keep trying to better herself

 

[dinzy]

Some sins are so grievous that it is irrelevant if the sinner makes peace with them. She is canonically a genocidal maniac. I'm not saying it's impossible for the writers to sell an arc that makes her a sympathetic protagonist in the face of this but it's definitely a tough needle to thread and even if they do it I'm not sure how this fits into the overall Trek philosophy to the extent it's been made explicit.

The mirror universe is ridiculous and being terrible was the only way to survive. This is not the same as Hitler or following Hitler, It is a whole society filled with Hitlers trying to out Hitler each other. You can say she is genocidal, but a maniac is not really appropriate as her behavior was not extreme for that universe and has not even been extreme in the Prime universe. Again, the mirror universe is ridiculously over the top. The slightest hint of weakness revealed to a subordinate almost always meant death. I just don't get why people try to judge her character by normal standards. Our normal is dead or slave in that universe. Nobody would ever act like that.

Sounds like this will be a mirror universe story. Facing the sins of her past isn't really possible without facing someone from her past. Who knows. Looks like a 2024 event.

 

[Quinton]

So another Star Trek movie that’ll probably never happen

This is on the TV side. They actually make the stuff they announce. Key difference.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I've merged the announcement thread into the existing news thread, as I don't see the point of having two threads discussing the same thing.

 

[fireproof78]

Mirror Georgiou isn't a perfect character but she's still someone who has tried to change for the better. Not that it makes up for every bad things she has done. I hope the movie doesn't have regress to Mirror-verse or Section 31 values. I rather see her keep trying to better herself

Same. I think there is a lot of potential to show a character grow and fulfill that Roddenberry-esque ideal. Not the evolved humanity so much as "We're not killers but we're not going to kill today." The idea that Georgiou has a choice were before she may not have felt much choice. That she can change and that's a valuable lesson in current culture that insists that once you're of a particular group or stripe you can never change.

 

[Verteron]

Announcement Translation: "we can no-longer afford Oscar winner Michelle Yeoh for 10 episodes"

I mean honestly though, I think it could work better. I've long been uncomfortable with the idea of a confirmed genocidal maniac becoming a main character in a Star Trek show. A one-off movie though, that tells a self-contained story? I could dig it, if it's done right.

 

[Soong-type Android]

It went from a proposed series, to a mini series now to a one off tv movie but this Section 31 thing is finally getting made so we don't have to suffer anymore discussion about it.

 

[fireproof78]

It went from a proposed series, to a mini series now to a one off tv movie but this Section 31 thing is finally getting made so we don't have to suffer anymore discussion about it.

I mean, was the suffering long?