Spoilers Section 31 General Discussion Thread

[Citiprime]

One small detail I noticed … Alok’s history is consistent with the TOS details for the Eugenics Wars, since he says he’s from the 20th century. It’s not consistent with SNW, which has moved the Eugenics Wars out into the 21st century due to changes in the timeline.

I’m guessing that whomever wrote the final draft for “Section 31” either didn’t get their heads together with the people making SNW or wasn’t made aware of what was going on for season 2 with “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow.”

Although, I guess it should be said, the Alok character is for all intents and purposes a reimagining of Ash Tyler. He’s a character who was taken and changed by a woman to serve in her army to do horrible things. I’ll bet dollars to donuts in some early draft of this, the character was Ash Tyler/Voq.

 

[James Cole]

One small detail I noticed … Alok’s history is consistent with the TOS details for the Eugenics Wars, since he says he’s from the 20th century. It’s not consistent with SNW, which has moved the Eugenics Wars out into the 21st century due to changes in the timeline.

I’m guessing that whomever wrote the final draft for “Section 31” either didn’t get their heads together with the people making SNW or wasn’t made aware of what was going on for season 2 with “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow.”

Although, I guess it should be said, the Alok character is for all intents and purposes a reimagining of Ash Tyler. He’s a character who was taken and changed by a woman to serve in her army to do horrible things. I’ll bet dollars to donuts in some early draft of this, the character was Ash Tyler/Voq.

They did say that the only thing that stayed the same from the beginning was "Alok", so that could support your theory.

 

[Yistaan]

One small detail I noticed … Alok’s history is consistent with the TOS details for the Eugenics Wars, since he says he’s from the 20th century. It’s not consistent with SNW, which has moved the Eugenics Wars out into the 21st century due to changes in the timeline.

I’m guessing that whomever wrote the final draft for “Section 31” either didn’t get their heads together with the people making SNW or wasn’t made aware of what was going on for season 2 with “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow.”

Although, I guess it should be said, the Alok character is for all intents and purposes a reimagining of Ash Tyler. He’s a character who was taken and changed by a woman to serve in her army to do horrible things. I’ll bet dollars to donuts in some early draft of this, the character was Ash Tyler/Voq.

It didn't actually say the wars were in the 20th century, just that Alok was born then. Assuming the wars took place at earliest in 2232 (enough time for kid Khan from SNW to be a young adult/late teen and take over the world) Alok would be 33 if he were born in 1999. Assuming in the new timeline Khan left in 2236, Alok would be 37 if he was asleep with Khan's people and woke up in 2267 in Space Seed and stranded the same year.

By 2285 Alok would be 55, maybe split with Khan's group offscreen and got rescued by Starfleet after ST2 with the rest of the Reliant crew. 39 years later in 2324 when S31 takes place, he would be 94, but looks younger because he's an Augment.

 

[Citiprime]

It didn't actually say the wars were in the 20th century, just that Alok was born then. Assuming the wars took place at earliest in 2232 (enough time for kid Khan from SNW to be a young adult/late teen and take over the world) Alok would be 33 if he were born in 1999. Assuming in the new timeline Khan left in 2236, Alok would be 37 if he was asleep with Khan's people and woke up in 2267 in Space Seed and stranded the same year.

By 2285 Alok would be 55, maybe split with Khan's group offscreen and got rescued by Starfleet after ST2 with the rest of the Reliant crew. 39 years later in 2324 when S31 takes place, he would be 94, but looks younger because he's an Augment.

The only addition I’ll add is that if you start with 2324 as being the date when “Section 31” occurs, and then use the estimate of “350 years old” which Georgiou offers within the text of the movie for how old Alok is after hearing he was born in the 20th century and involved in the Eugenics Wars, and which Alok agrees with “more or less,” that would put his birth in the 1970s.

That would fit with him being in his 20s for the 1990s and the original conception of when Khan and the augments fought the Eugenics Wars and were exiled.

I’ll also note, as of now, Alok’s birth being in the 1970s is what Memory Alpha has gone with based on what was onscreen.

 

[Yistaan]

The only addition I’ll add is that if you start with 2324 as being the date when “Section 31” occurs, and then use the estimate of “350 years old” which Georgiou offers within the text of the movie for how old Alok is after hearing he was born in the 20th century and involved in the Eugenics Wars, and which Alok agrees with “more or less,” that would put his birth in the 1970s.

That would fit with him being in his 20s for the 1990s and the original conception of when Khan and the augments fought the Eugenics Wars and were exiled.

I’ll also note, as of now, Alok’s birth being in the 1970s is what Memory Alpha has gone with based on what was onscreen.

Memory Alpha is too literal and basing the 1970s date by subtracting 350 from 2324. Alok's "more or less" gives wiggle room to be 325 years old that can be rounded up to 350 if you're weighing between 300 and 350, meaning my interpretation can still fit. But yeah, it's certainly a confusing timeline.

Also Mirror Georgiou may know all of zip about the Eugenics Wars, much less the exact timeframe. It's likely not even a historical event in her home universe.

 

[Daedalus]

Did Alok specify how old he was when the Eugenics Wars happened? I can't remember him saying.

There were TOS phasers in Georgiou's office, so maybe Osunsamni just preferred the look and chronology of that era.

We did also see TOS aliens too, so there is that

 

[Lord Garth]

The only addition I’ll add is that if you start with 2324 as being the date when “Section 31” occurs, and then use the estimate of “350 years old” which Georgiou offers within the text of the movie for how old Alok is after hearing he was born in the 20th century and involved in the Eugenics Wars, and which Alok agrees with “more or less,” that would put his birth in the 1970s.

That would fit with him being in his 20s for the 1990s and the original conception of when Khan and the augments fought the Eugenics Wars and were exiled.

I’ll also note, as of now, Alok’s birth being in the 1970s is what Memory Alpha has gone with based on what was onscreen.

It also helps that the actor who plays Alok, Omari Hardwick, was born in 1974.

link

 

[Yistaan]

Did Alok specify how old he was when the Eugenics Wars happened? I can't remember him saying.

There were TOS phasers in Georgiou's office, so maybe Osunsamni just preferred the look and chronology of that era.

We did also see TOS aliens too, so there is that.

I don't believe he did. The way he talked about his village being overrun and his family killed, being taken in by that evil augment lady and turned into an augment, etc. does strongly imply he was a child (which certainly steamrolls my theory of him being born in 1999 and being kidnapped during a 2030s Eugenics Wars). But I don't believe he outright says his exact age.

 

[Daedalus]

I don't believe he did. The way he talked about his village being overrun and his family killed, being taken in by that evil augment lady and turned into an augment, etc. does strongly imply he was a child (which certainly steamrolls my theory of him being born in 1999 and being kidnapped during a 2030s Eugenics Wars). But I don't believe he outright says his exact age.

I think it's loose enough that you can get away with multiple theories, but I actually like the fact that..

It also helps that the actor who plays Alok, Omari Hardwick, was born in 1974.

link

It's a nice coincidence.

Or actually quite deliberate.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

The Final Frontier at least had enjoyable cinematography and the chemistry of the cast to make it worth watching.

Section 31... does not have either of those.

S31 did kinda remind me of the first half of FF in the sense that it was clearly trying to be something new for Trek as a reaction to modern firm trends.

The Final Frontier is saved from the garbage bin entirely because of the scenes with The Trio. Take away the scenes with Kirk, Spock and McCoy, and the movie isn't worth the film it's printed on.

That is a very large part of the movie though. It's like saying Jurassic Park would be crap if you took out the dinosaurs.

 

[Daedalus]

Random thought, did anyone play Command and Conquer?

The briefing was very "welcome back, commander".

 

[The Wormhole]

One small detail I noticed … Alok’s history is consistent with the TOS details for the Eugenics Wars, since he says he’s from the 20th century. It’s not consistent with SNW, which has moved the Eugenics Wars out into the 21st century due to changes in the timeline.

I’m guessing that whomever wrote the final draft for “Section 31” either didn’t get their heads together with the people making SNW or wasn’t made aware of what was going on for season 2 with “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow.”

At this point, I think they're being intentionally contradictory every time the Eugenics Wars are mentioned just to troll fandom and send the message that it don't matter at all when the Eugenics Wars took place.

 

[fireproof78]

Random though, did anyone play Command and Conquer?

The briefing was very "welcome back, commander".

Onr of the favorite games of my childhood.

That and Descent.

 

[Yistaan]

McCoy: Are you out of your Vulcan mind? No human can tolerate the radiation that's in there!

Spock: But, as you are so fond of observing, Doctor, I'm not human.

McCoy: You're not going in there!

Spock: I took the 'Alok shot' just before I arrived in engineering. I am now an augment and can survive the radiation in there.

McCoy: That's illegal under Federation law! Your Starfleet career is over even if you survive!

Spock: As I augmented myself to save the ship and its crew, it is highly likely that Starfleet will grant me the Una exception.

(Spock saves the day, survives and Wrath of Khan ends very differently)

Section 31 deleted post credits scene--

Alok: ****! I just realized if I had given Zeph a transfusion of my augment blood, he could've revived!

 

[137th Gebirg]

Just saw it. Pretty confident that this was a one-and-done. There were a few interesting moments but overall it was kind of meh. If it ever does go forward it needs to be completely retooled. Bigly.

 

[Yistaan]

Ex Astris Scientia's review is up. Good points made in how for a group that's supposed to be secretive, Zeph and Fuzz in particular stick out like a sore thumb (even in a galaxy full of strange aliens). They might as well just have signs saying "We're Section 31". It's certainly a far cry from how they were described in DS9 as "being in hiding for over 300 years".

 

[James Cole]

Ex Astris Scientia's review is up. Good points made in how for a group that's supposed to be secretive, Zeph and Fuzz in particular stick out like a sore thumb (even in a galaxy full of strange aliens). They might as well just have signs saying "We're Section 31". It's certainly a far cry from how they were described in DS9 as "being in hiding for over 300 years".

EAS also is one of the people arguing Alok was the strongest character element, then concludes with:

It seems Kurtzman merely fulfilled his self-imposed duty to bring back Oscar winner Michelle Yeoh - if not in a series, then at least in a streaming movie. Few people liked the announcements and trailers. From what I could read in terms of spoiler-free reviews, almost no one seems to like the finished product, despite the efforts to distribute it to as many review websites as possible that the people at Paramount deem compliant (which excludes EAS, but I would have declined anyway had I been asked). I think I even rate "Section 31" a bit higher than the access media do, perhaps because they still had (lowered) expectations, whereas I essentially just wanted to get over with it. "Section 31" is clearly not the worst Star Trek ever. It is pointless and soulless and generic - but at least entertaining as a caper story and a murder mystery. It is another one of those Kurtzman experiments that failed, but not quite as utterly as some parts of Discovery that were a real pain to watch.

Rating: 2

 

[Tuskin38]

EAS also is one of the people arguing Alok was the strongest character element, then concludes with:

He doesn't think it's the worst Trek ever? Wow. I honestly expected he would have.

 

[The Wormhole]

Oh look, Bernd hates it. Shocking.

 

[Daedalus]

Well, that's the thing, it really isn't the worst. It's just that it could've been way better.

While Yeoh gets the attention, Omari Hardwick carried a lot more of this film than he's given credit for.