Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Tuskin38, Jan 20, 2019.
There's a difference between visual changes and the way characters act.
Said Enterprise arc, aside from explaining Klingon visual changes, also had dialogue explaining neural reordering to show changes in how Klingons acted between TOS and elsewhere: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Klingon_augment_virus#Background_information
23rd Century trampstamps are literally small sheet metal stamping mills applied to the lower tailbone. The maker movement got out of hand.
They are different kinds of differences, but still differences.
it's implied in the Cage with the doctor's visiting Pike and counseling him, that Chris is behaving unusually after Rigel. Mount could too, if we see him lose a bunch of crew and battle a giant with a spear.
They should have Pike shooting down holographic spear-wielding giants in the Discovery training room as a shout out to this incident, and showing it still weighs heavily on him.
So, just to be clear, in a 2019 show, you want an entire subplot involving Talosians telepathically manipulating Pike just to explain a one-off line where Pike was a misogynistic jerk in a preliminary pilot from the 60s that's set in the past of this show? Makes total sense.
Oddly enough, about ten seconds before he says he can't get used to a woman on the bridge with regard to Colt (and that he doesn't consider Number One a woman), he's standing right next to a third female crewmember who's operating the bridge printer. It's really not a well-thought-out line, even when it was new.
On a more serious note, I assumed that when Pike mentioned to Jacob that he knew what it was like to live with doubt, he was referring to never quite being sure if he'd actually left Talos or they were just showing him what he wanted to happen.
Except I didn't say that. This is what I actually said:
Don't claim I said anything about an entire subplot when I said, in the quote, "an offhand comment".
You're right, that's slightly less unnecessary.
I can't remember if I said this here or elsewhere, but I like a sterner, tighter ship than the informal-ish, no-ranks Pike. Like Lorca, sigh, or Greenwood Pike or early S1 TOS Kirk. Sorry offtopic.
It is sort of jarring. The Cage Pike was much more stressed and formal. He somehow got way more relaxed between the Cage and Discovery.
A lot of things can happen in 3 years.
Wasn't that the point? He was stressed and overly formal until he was faced with a situation that changed his perspective and he grew as a person and a commander.
I suppose it’s the same sort of off day which provoked Spock to joke about rape at the end of The Enemy Within, and everyone except Rand to find it okay.
Probably best to just pretend such things never happened...
Yeah, the ending of The Enemy Within left a sour taste in my mouth because of the way Rand was gaslit there. It reinforced the idea that women like being dominated and assaulted. That they find it a romantic ideal. And Spock was the one advancing the notion. UGGGGH.
Or then he was a jerk, and later on no longer was.
Happens to people all the time. And a key ingredient tends to be getting laid. As a purely empirical and statistically well-supported observation, that is. (Probably hasn't helped me much, but that's just an outlier.)
Works in-universe. But I really don't see the need. Lorca was a fan favorite with or without his mirror-evilness; a lot of the politically incorrect things he did early on, such as offhand dividing the world into "lackeys" vs. him-and-his-trophy-wife-who-doesn't-even-know-yet-she-is, went uncommented or unopposed, even though most of the starship CO leads of previous shows had been politically correct and this guy was in sharp contrast.
Should Pike's character evolution be a plot element in this show? Probably not, as nobody in the show knew him back when he was afraid of women and bound to get depressed when losing people or contests or whatnot. Nobody ever commented much on Kirk having been a stack of books with legs, either.
[/quote]I seem to recall that the Vulcans had ships capable of Warp 7 in the 2150s, they just weren't sharing that tech with Earth. It seems fairly unlikely to m that they haven't either shared that tech or had it copied by the clever spies and engineers of other Federation member worlds by 100 years later...[/QUOTE]
Sure Starfleet would have the tech. But why would it make the Discovery go warp 7? In the 24th century, some starships can do warp 9.9 or whatnot; Sisko's runabouts or his little Defiant still can't. I'm just postulating that this dedicated science platform is not a particularly fast ship type by the standards of her day.
Having only seen TOS Pike at a life -inflection point and then in a cage under duress, I really don't know what he was like then, in a normal week.
IIRC, The time of April and Pike on the Enterprise was just various Federation/Star Fleet missions. The 5 Year Mission given to Kirk was (supposed to be) exploration of the unknown/unvisited parts of the quadrant (and beyond). That's why Kirk never makes it back to Earth to visit (during TOS). Of course, he got sidetracked by orders for little side missions
Separate names with a comma.