Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread
- Thread starter TheSeeker
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The bussard collectors looked odd to me and gave it away that it was CGI.
Aatrek
Rear Admiral
It just needed a good re-edit to smooth out the rough edges. It could have been a pretty decent 40-minute special.
One thing is for sure, Gene was totally out of touch with reality during the making of the TNG. That seems to be the theme. I have no problem with that because Trek was usually at it's best when Gene wasn't directly involved. He also turned into a flaming lib during TNG and it shows some times, just wrecking the show. Same happened with Lucas when he totally sucked the mystic / mythical elements out of Star Wars with the prequels. Gene's whole vision of man wouldn't have conflict with one another is just unrealistic and insane. It ignores history. It also made for crappy storytelling.
-Chris
-Chris
That's kind of what "hope for the future" means, though. I had no problems with the "conflict from the outside" concept Gene had that makes for more creative story telling if you ask me.
It's easy to have the crew bickering and fighting with one another, it's not easy and more creative to have conflict come from other places.
No, it makes it unrelatable to the audience because that isn't how we work as people. Utopia never can happen..as we saw on the original series it is a bad thing (The Apple, Return of the Archons, This Side of Paradise). In the real world they meltdown into dictatorships as the people with the vision wind up killing millions to achieve their version of utopia.
The original series was about bettering the individual, and promoting individual freedom. The TNG universe was a mess it didn't have a consistent message. They could be a bunch of elitist snobs sometimes just look at how racist they were to the Ferengi. Not very accepting of their culture. There were episodes just chock full of moral equivalence which is just a bunch of BS. Then there were episodes when they hit it out of the park - Drumhead, Offspring, Measure of a Man, Inner Light, Family.
Speaking of Family, it is interesting Gene didn't want them to do that episode. I think it was one of the best episodes of the series. It really humanized Picard and showed the effect that being assimilated had on him. I think Ira and RDM did a better job on DS9 in bringing back elements from the original series and running it through their stories. If the original series was wagon train to the stars, then DS9 was an old west town they stopped in.
-Chris
Starting with the first season all the way to the episode before "All Good Things", a majority of TNG episodes are ones I never really saw or remembered. Despite being a fan of TNG dating all the way back to the mid-90s, I've never seen Family, Brothers or Remember Me.
Going through all of Disc 1 and some of Disc 2, I've pretty much concluded that this whole "female equality" thing that TNG tries to portray (Suddenly Human) is a bunch of crap. With the exception of "Remember Me" (Which is now in my top 10), this season is so focused on the male characters that I found a moment in "Suddenly Human" to be borderline offensive when both Crusher and Troi seem contempt with not helping a human boy back into their society for no other reason than they're women. Because it's not like he's going to be dealing with women if he does fully re-integrate. And it gets worse. A lot of the female characters end up being shamed, turn out to be bad guy and/or dying just to add more depth to the male characters. "Legacy" totally curb stomped a potentially cool character with Tasha's sister (made all the more annoying by how predictable it was) so Data can have a moment, and "Reunion" is a bona fide example of the "Women in refrigerators" cliché by killing K'Ehleyr so Worf and Alexander can have a moment. And of course Alexander HAD to be a son because we want the audience to see him as Worf's child with his forehead looking exactly like Worf's Klingon forehead.
It's like the thought of any of the characters having a daughter or any female character going through some kind of character growth was looked at as the worst thing you could ever do on the show. We've had "Family" dealing with Picard's brother and Wesley dealing with his dead father, "Brothers" dealing with not one, but two groups of brothers with one dealing with Daddy issues, and later with Riker having a fake son. It was also nice for Data to not bring up Lal to Doctor Soong when he literally said "Well, I often hoped you might become a scientist. Perhaps even a cyberneticist."
I hardly ever say something like this, but WHAT THE HELL TNG??
Going through all of Disc 1 and some of Disc 2, I've pretty much concluded that this whole "female equality" thing that TNG tries to portray (Suddenly Human) is a bunch of crap. With the exception of "Remember Me" (Which is now in my top 10), this season is so focused on the male characters that I found a moment in "Suddenly Human" to be borderline offensive when both Crusher and Troi seem contempt with not helping a human boy back into their society for no other reason than they're women. Because it's not like he's going to be dealing with women if he does fully re-integrate. And it gets worse. A lot of the female characters end up being shamed, turn out to be bad guy and/or dying just to add more depth to the male characters. "Legacy" totally curb stomped a potentially cool character with Tasha's sister (made all the more annoying by how predictable it was) so Data can have a moment, and "Reunion" is a bona fide example of the "Women in refrigerators" cliché by killing K'Ehleyr so Worf and Alexander can have a moment. And of course Alexander HAD to be a son because we want the audience to see him as Worf's child with his forehead looking exactly like Worf's Klingon forehead.
It's like the thought of any of the characters having a daughter or any female character going through some kind of character growth was looked at as the worst thing you could ever do on the show. We've had "Family" dealing with Picard's brother and Wesley dealing with his dead father, "Brothers" dealing with not one, but two groups of brothers with one dealing with Daddy issues, and later with Riker having a fake son. It was also nice for Data to not bring up Lal to Doctor Soong when he literally said "Well, I often hoped you might become a scientist. Perhaps even a cyberneticist."
I hardly ever say something like this, but WHAT THE HELL TNG??
I thought Family was a cop-out.
Picard's redemption for what happened should've been a long-running thread through the remainder of the series. We should've seen the back room whispers about how a man can be trusted that killed 40,000 of his own.
They trot it out from time to time, but between those few times, it is the same Picard we always know with no ill effects from what happened to him. IMO.
I thought Family was a cop-out.
Picard's redemption for what happened should've been a long-running thread through the remainder of the series. We should've seen the back room whispers about how a man can be trusted that killed 40,000 of his own.
They trot it out from time to time, but between those few times, it is the same Picard we always know with no ill effects from what happened to him. IMO.
Star Trek was never that kind of show. The fact that the writers devoted an entire episode in which they acknowlegde Picard's traumatic experience and have him come to terms with it, was a Trek first and went against the wishes of Roddenberry. At least give the writers credit for that. Star Trek TNG was episodic by nature, so events from one episode had little impact on subsequent episodes. All Star Trek shows were like this, so to criticize the show for it now seems pointless.
Even Deep Space Nine, the first Trek series that had any kind of serialized storytelling, also dropped major character development in favor of the episodic structure of the show. For example O'Brein's traumatic prison experience in season four's "Hard Times" was forgotten the next week and never mentioned again.
I had no problem relating to Gene's philosophy. It made for some peace of mind for me. I grew up in a house with people bickering all the time, it was nice to see human beings work on bettering that side of themselves and be respectful.
Given the ratings the show had, I think a lot of people might have felt that way. It was a nice escape. Enterprise D was a place I would have loved to live, not so much DS9 or Voyager.
Agreed on Frakes. I thought after Season 3 his "ladies man" persona no longer worked. Funny because on most shows women weren't allowed to gain weight(see Delta Burke on Designing Women) yet Frakes was allowed to stay on. They should have let him keep his captain rank after Best of Both Worlds, move him to another ship and have Shelby or someone else become the new first officer.
Reunion freaking rocks!!!
There's always the comment what episodes would work on a certain series, and Reunion is an episode that would be a great DS9 episode. It's interesting how DS9 kind of tied some of the plots to this show together, such as Worf becoming what K'ehleyr was or how Worf killed both Duras and Gowron. There was just so much greatness to this episode, it's probably a top 5 season 4 episode for sure.
The remastering was pretty good too, even though the far distances of the ship look HTV like? When CBS Digital does it, the ship looks dark and menacing and beautiful. When another company does it, the ship looks white a little dull. I know this has probably been talked about adnausium and there are folks here who know more about what things are supposed to look like better than I, but it's just something I've noticed a bit. Still, I haven't seen Reunion in a long time and it's probably my favorite episode in this whole Klingon arc.
There's always the comment what episodes would work on a certain series, and Reunion is an episode that would be a great DS9 episode. It's interesting how DS9 kind of tied some of the plots to this show together, such as Worf becoming what K'ehleyr was or how Worf killed both Duras and Gowron. There was just so much greatness to this episode, it's probably a top 5 season 4 episode for sure.
The remastering was pretty good too, even though the far distances of the ship look HTV like? When CBS Digital does it, the ship looks dark and menacing and beautiful. When another company does it, the ship looks white a little dull. I know this has probably been talked about adnausium and there are folks here who know more about what things are supposed to look like better than I, but it's just something I've noticed a bit. Still, I haven't seen Reunion in a long time and it's probably my favorite episode in this whole Klingon arc.
I've always loved this story !! When I first watched TNG he was my favourite character on the series I was very happy to embrace that again when DS9 introduced him. Always thought that the way of the warrior was one of the best Klingon story arcs ever.
And the HD remastering of TNG is amazing in some aspects I'm reading the 365 book of Star Trek TNG as I'm watching each episode some really good facts while watching season 4 !!
Thoughts on Redemption: I broke down and bought the Redemption single disc release. I always felt part two was weaker than part one...and it still is, but I enjoyed the two-parter so much I watched it twice, plus a third time just for the commentary. Somehow, the episode's weak point: The sela arc, doesn't seem quite so glaring anymore. It all really makes sense, even though it's convoluted. What is still a problem is the Romulan withdrawal after Data's detection of the convoy...Starfleet already knew the Roms were there, it was just a question of where, so I don't see why Sela didn't retry somewhere else, after all placing a puppet ruler in the Klingon Empire is no small potatoes. Obviously such a plot would have meant a part three, and STNG was not doing such things back then.
Some fav moments. The Data arc is strong, not just with AI rights, but with any kind of bias, and there are also some command/political questions...the ends justifying the means and so on.
Enjoyed the Federation fleet, but woefully small scale. Still, I recall it gave me a thrill when it came out.
The Klingon civil war was a great arc. I enjoyed the machinations and characters.
Klingon ship action everywhere! Matte paintings on fire!
Not so fav moments: Tachyon grid? In space? It was small enough to chart on a viewscreen so the Roms could have gone right around it.
Romulan shoulder pads. Almost too big to fly around...
Worf captured by two Klingons in about 20 seconds. What the Hell was he drinking?
Sela, the best military tactician since...Saddam Hussein? Awful planning.
RAMA
Some fav moments. The Data arc is strong, not just with AI rights, but with any kind of bias, and there are also some command/political questions...the ends justifying the means and so on.
Enjoyed the Federation fleet, but woefully small scale. Still, I recall it gave me a thrill when it came out.
The Klingon civil war was a great arc. I enjoyed the machinations and characters.
Klingon ship action everywhere! Matte paintings on fire!
Not so fav moments: Tachyon grid? In space? It was small enough to chart on a viewscreen so the Roms could have gone right around it.
Romulan shoulder pads. Almost too big to fly around...
Worf captured by two Klingons in about 20 seconds. What the Hell was he drinking?
Sela, the best military tactician since...Saddam Hussein? Awful planning.
RAMA
I had another thought about Reunion and how it would be a great episode on DS9. We had three major players of the Klingon empire (At this time) all be murdered, K'empec, K'ehleyr, and Duras (Yeah it was an act of vengeance but it was still murder). Name another supposedly family show that had something like that happen. Actually, other than DS9, I don't think there was another Trek series that had that happen, 3 deaths to major characters.
Not murder, that is how Klingons handle their business. That's why they have the "Right of Vengeance" to begin with.
I think the above shows my biggest problem with TNG, especially in comparison to TOS. In TOS, it seemed like humans were out in the galaxy to explore and learn and many times learning things about themselves that didn't look very good when they stepped back and examined their attitudes and actions. In TNG, it seemed like the humans were out in the wilderness to teach the natives about truth, justice and the Federation way.
That is a great point. I felt that way as well. TNG they always seemed to be within Federation space, going from planet to planet. They didn't seem to be "exploring strange new worlds" all the time. The Enterprise D never felt like it was out on its own, like the Enterprise in TOS. Even when they were at a starbase it felt like they were out at some frontier fort not a built up space dock.
The other aspect I thought used to drown stories was the tech the tech talk as RDM used to say. It could just suck the drama out of a story. They were pulling particles out of their butts..lol
I think that is one reason why I like DS9 more and more. It went back to more of a TOS attitude.
Picard has made some very bad calls - not infecting the borg in "I borg", airing Starfleet's dirty laundry to the Romulans in Pegasus.
-Chris
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while it was nice to hear everyones input on that vam, I totally agree. I kept thinking...shut the hell up about DS9..that's not what we want to hear...
Well I didn't care one bit. One thing that sticks out with Season Four on TNG is that it does set up a TON of elements that will be instrumental to Deep Space Nine. O'Brien's character, his marriage to Keiko, the Cardassians, the Trill, even that Ferengi bridge officer in that "Future Imperfect" episode.
Plus, I bet DS9 was a far better show to work on for them. MAN, I can't wait for the potential BluRay!
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