News Season 4 Official Teaser

[Ray Hardgrit]

ENTERPRISE getting the warm welcome as canon is a huge mood swing from previous discourse.

They hired Trek novellists Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens and spent a whole season fixing the canon, with classic episodes like "The TOS Era is Just As You Remember It, Part 1 and 2" and "The TNG Era is Just as You Remember Except Riker Put on Some Weight".

 

[fireproof78]

They hired Trek novellists Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens and spent a whole season fixing the canon, with classic episodes like "The TOS Era is Just As You Remember It, Part 1 and 2" and "The TNG Era is Just as You Remember Except Riker Put on Some Weight".

So, awful episodes fixed canon and that wipes away all the problems?

 

[Detached Nacelle]

generally a list of best and worst episodes stays fairly static in my experience.

General opinion polls are always stagnant across any franchise.

On a personal level I do not really find my likes and dislikes changing massively, they have from when I was a child say, as it took until my teens for ENT and me to click but typically my own best and worsts are pretty static. Im also incredibly stubborn.

But of course it somewhat a moot point as we are not the sort to automatically hate new star trek just for being new star trek.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They hired Trek novellists Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens and spent a whole season fixing the canon, with classic episodes like "The TOS Era is Just As You Remember It, Part 1 and 2" and "The TNG Era is Just as You Remember Except Riker Put on Some Weight".

Eh, they did some fanwank episodes.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

They didn't wank hard enough IMO.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't think this is actually a thing.

Oh, it is. And it isn't just Star Trek where this happens. We see it in Star Wars where the prequels were mercilessly shit on when they came out but are now beloved classics. Or Doctor Who, where its fandom actually embraced this concept in the 80s with their attitude of "hate the new episodes when they air as inferior to what came before, then reassess five years later and determine them to actually be good and far better than what's currently airing, which is of course crap and will be until five years later."

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Oh, it is. And it isn't just Star Trek where this happens. We see it in Star Wars where the prequels were mercilessly shit on when they came out but are now beloved classics. Or Doctor Who, where its fandom actually embraced this concept in the 80s with their attitude of "hate the new episodes when they air as inferior to what came before, then reassess five years later and determine them to actually be good and far better than what's currently airing, which is of course crap and will be until five years later."

I haven't seen the survey which shows that people changed their minds about the Star Wars prequels and the IMDb scores haven't improved at all despite the thousands of new votes. Are you sure it's not just The Clone Wars cartoon that people like now? It did a lot of work to rehabilitate the era.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Saavik isn't his daughter, is she?

In the novel "Mind Meld" by John Vornolt, Spock's young niece, Teska, is introduced. It doesn't specify that Sybok was her estranged father, but readers can connect the dots.

But #notcanon, of course.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't think this is actually a thing...

Been living through this since 1980. It's a thing.

What shocked me somewhat was going through issues of our club newsletter from before I joined, and finding letters by members hating on Filmation's TAS long before it had even started airing. Not to mention rampant skepticism about "Phase II" and TMP. They would rather no more Trek ever than sampling something new.

 

[Firebird]

ENTERPRISE getting the warm welcome as canon is a huge mood swing from previous discourse.

This. I'm old enough to remember the drubbing through the coals the series got when I first joined the BBS 21 years ago. Enterprise has had a complete change in favor in all that time.

 

[Starflight]

It's probably not generally the same people - a lot of people who hated TNG when it was airing likely never really warmed up to it (my dad who despised it when it first released still can't stand it today). They just eventually got drowned out by TNG fans and a new consensus, which might be happening with Enterprise.

I'm just about old enough to have experienced this with videogames, I thought (and still think) Fallout 2 was complete trash when it came out and so did a lot of other people, then when Bethesda got the license Fo2 was suddenly retconned into an all-time classic on par with or better than the original game, which I suppose is in large part due to it getting rapidly canonised and people coming to it for the first time after that point.

The question is whether the Kurtzman stuff cultivated a fanbase in the way that TNG did to the point where, twenty years from now, they'll be classing it as TRUE TREK in contrast to whatever new thing is airing.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it's rather odd to imagine wanting to wait for this grand reinterpreting. Is consensus that important?

 

[Starflight]

I think it's rather odd to imagine wanting to wait for this grand reinterpreting. Is consensus that important?

Not really, but it lets you prepare yourself for how annoying the discourse will be in like ten years' time.

 

[fireproof78]

Not really, but it lets you prepare yourself for how annoying the discourse will be in like ten years' time.

To borrow a quote from MASH, "Let's skip the Christmas rush and start being annoyed now."

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It's probably not generally the same people - a lot of people who hated TNG when it was airing likely never really warmed up to it (my dad who despised it when it first released still can't stand it today). They just eventually got drowned out by TNG fans and a new consensus, which might be happening with Enterprise.

This makes sense. Our perception of whether something is currently liked or not depends on the people who are still talking about it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It's probably not generally the same people - a lot of people who hated TNG when it was airing likely never really warmed up to it...

Although I am open to all new Trek, I was surprised by a few close friends who had loved TNG but hated DS9 and VGR -- watching them occasionally only to hate them, it seemed. Then, surprise!, they fully embraced ENT. I would never have picked their flip-flop.

 

[Hellbird]

I haven't seen the survey which shows that people changed their minds about the Star Wars prequels and the IMDb scores haven't improved at all despite the thousands of new votes. Are you sure it's not just The Clone Wars cartoon that people like now? It did a lot of work to rehabilitate the era.

I wonder if anyone could ever rehabilitate the Star Wars Holiday Special?

Some things never get better with time.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

In the novel "Mind Meld" by John Vornolt, Spock's young niece, Teska, is introduced. It doesn't specify that Sybok was her estranged father, but readers can connect the dots.

But #notcanon, of course.

Of course we've seen Sybok was knocking boots with Angel so a neice would not be the most surprising relative of all of Spock's surprise relatives.

 

[Rahul]

It's probably not generally the same people - a lot of people who hated TNG when it was airing likely never really warmed up to it (my dad who despised it when it first released still can't stand it today). They just eventually got drowned out by TNG fans and a new consensus, which might be happening with Enterprise.

I'm just about old enough to have experienced this with videogames, I thought (and still think) Fallout 2 was complete trash when it came out and so did a lot of other people, then when Bethesda got the license Fo2 was suddenly retconned into an all-time classic on par with or better than the original game, which I suppose is in large part due to it getting rapidly canonised and people coming to it for the first time after that point.

The question is whether the Kurtzman stuff cultivated a fanbase in the way that TNG did to the point where, twenty years from now, they'll be classing it as TRUE TREK in contrast to whatever new thing is airing.

TNG also massively improved over time, and re-runs went straight to the good parts (was rare to catch the first few seasons on tv back in the day).

I would say DIS would have had a better chance at getting late recognition if it didn't try to completely re-invent itself every season & distance itself so much from everything it did before. Do you like the early, 23rd century gore & claustrophobic military SF? Or the late, 31st century family oriented sapiness? Like with Grey's Anatomy after 20 seasons there's also barely anyone from the original supporting cast left by the end, but after a much shorter run.

Comparatively ENT seasons 1 & 2 are still not great.
But I would argue seasons 3 & 4 genuinely are - but it's still recognisable the same show the whole time, which makes watching even the difficult parts rewarding later on.

 

[Gepard]

The rehabilitation of Enterprise is one of the funniest things I've seen out of this fanbase. I, too, was here 20+ years ago and remember how it was received.

I remain consistent. Enterprise sucked then and it sucks now. Some Kurtzman-era Trek being even worse doesn't change that.